The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 119

Not everyone needs a happy ending. You do. Don’t watch new Star Wars. Problem solved.

^Exactly right.

And anyone who thinks ANH needed a sequel should have a chat with Anchorhead.

TV’s Frink said:

Not everyone needs a happy ending. You do. Don’t watch new Star Wars. Problem solved.

Yeah, but isn’t this why forums like this exist? To discuss why we jump on or off the band wagon, or why we like or dislike certain elements, or what makes a Star Wars film work for you, or not? It’s not, because we all agree. If we all agreed, we would have a first post on some random subject, followed by a few dozen: I agree! I agree! This! You’re a genius, give me more!

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

Not everyone needs a happy ending. You do. Don’t watch new Star Wars. Problem solved.

Yeah, but isn’t this why forums like this exist? To discuss why we jump on or off the band wagon, or why we like or dislike certain elements, or what makes a Star Wars film work for you, or not? It’s not, because we all agree. If we all agreed, we would have a first post on some random subject, followed by a few dozen: I agree! I agree! This! You’re a genius, give me more!

There’s no “why” contained in

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

Jeebus said:

Collipso said:

Just like VIII would explain Rey’s magical force powers?

All force powers are magical.

I meant how she magically acquired them.

The reason is there if you bother to look and think. Imagining that Luke’s training was typical or normal is the first problem. And then realizing that we’ve never seen anyone else’s training in the films. So Rey is only the second Jedi we have followed through the process. I’m not sure how many times Yoda has to point out the flaws in Luke’s thinking for people to realize that Yoda was desperate or Luke would never have been trained at all.

I just don’t buy your reasoning. Rey copying Kylo doesn’t work for me, because watching someone walking a tightrope, doesn’t mean I can also instantly do it. Like I said learning to access and use the Force was intimately connected to personal growth in both the OT and the PT. That element has now been completely removed. The Force awakens in you, because it somehow needs to be in balance, which would then also mean, since it awoke in Rey to counter Kylo, the Force has somehow also predetermined she’s to be or is a force for good. Though I’m not a big fan of the PT’s Chosen One angle, that at least questioned the whole idea of believing in a prophecy predicting balance, and whether the end justifies the means. Anakin did bring balance to the Force, but at a terrible price. Was Anakin created by the Sith? It was hinted at, and Lucas ultimately decided to leave it as a question mark. So, was he ultimately a force for good, or evil? With Rey it thusfar seems pretty well answered, as in my view she’s never been seriously tempted.

I think you’re making a false comparison. Walking a tightrope is a very specified skill that takes a lot of balance. It’s something very artificial because you don’t find tightropes in nature. However if you compare to other things like painting, drawing, singing, math, pod racing, flying, building things, and a host of other items, there’s a lot more realism in what they’ve done with Rey than you seem to give them credit for. People try something and discover that the course they’ve taken in life has prepared them for it and they’re good at it from the moment they start. I’m not saying that Rey is just picking up these skills on the Fly, I’m saying that her life on Jakku prepared her and that she started out in tune with nature and the force even though she didn’t know how to use it and when she sees kylo use it she can see what he’s doing and is copying him, and if it first she doesn’t get it right she does it again until she does get it right. It’s almost as if she can see what he’s doing on a level that lets her copy it precisely. Sort of like if you’re a computer programmer and you’re watching over someone shoulders as they write code that you’ve never tried to do before and you see exactly what they’re doing and so you go to your computer and you try to do the same thing and it doesn’t work the first time but then you to do it again and get it right. It is an unusual though not unheard of ability and we are seeing it in action with the force. Where Luke’s background on Tatooine did not prepare him. Yoda had to retrain him. He had doubts he had dreams and they all got in the way of him accessing the force. When he needed it and didn’t doubt it it was there. But when he thought the X-Wing was too big he couldn’t lift it. Rey sees how Kylo does things so she knows it can be done, sees how to do it, then does it herself. It is not magic. The force is often equated with magic, but the way Rey is picking up these skills is totally believable.

The old Jedi training (which we have never seen in it’s entirety) begins early in childhood. Even 9 year-old Anakin is too old. It progresses, teaching them how to access the force and what they can do with it in a slow methodical process to avoid the temptation of the dark side and build a sure and confident Jedi. The closest we have gotten to that is in Rebels. Ezra has been picking up things faster and easier than Luke. Rey is basically a force genius. Nothing magical about it at all. Let’s take a real world example. T.E. Lawrence was a cartographer. He became a great leader. What training did he have in being a general? He was just a lieutenant. He certainly had no experience. Yet the failures he encountered were not at the beginning. Then let’s take Einstein an his theory of relativity. He came up with the idea in a bus and turned his daydream into provable mathmatic equations. When they make movies about them do they bother explaining how they learn? Nope. They focus on their personal development. Sometime learning a skilled is the story, sometimes that comes too easy and the interesting story lies in other parts of their life. We spent one movie watching Luke struggle to overcome his doubts. Doing it again would be repetative. We skipped that part of Anakin’s life. With Rey, the interesting part is not her learning the force, but her role in the Skywalker saga as the foil to Kylo and part of the Resistance/Rebellion.

You seem to forget, that even Einstein went to school. Genius doesn’t just magically happen. It’s not like some random bus driver suddenly invents the theory of relativity. Genius is an extreme of talent, but it is not boundless, and it doesn’t happen instanteously, as it does with Rey. There’s no level of understanding with Rey, as there is with genius, no learning curve. That’s not how genius works, or the Force.

TLJ is different, not because it tells a very different story set in the same universe. It tells a very similar story set in a different universe. The Star Wars universe and it’s rules were broken to force different outcomes in almost identical situations. TLJ is a mix of TESB and ROTJ set in an alternate universe with similar aesthetics. The most obvious example is the character of Luke , who was deconstructed and then reassembled to fit into this alternate universe. You accept the alternate universe, then you accept this Luke Skywalker, but for people like me he’s a different character.

I agree. This universe is also pointless to the previous one, since that one told a complete story.

Plus the new one makes the previous one completely pointless as well.

I give you credit, you put thought into your posts. Collipso does as well, but that one is just whining for whining’s sake. Both statements are also factually incorrect.

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

Not everyone needs a happy ending. You do. Don’t watch new Star Wars. Problem solved.

Yeah, but isn’t this why forums like this exist? To discuss why we jump on or off the band wagon, or why we like or dislike certain elements, or what makes a Star Wars film work for you, or not? It’s not, because we all agree. If we all agreed, we would have a first post on some random subject, followed by a few dozen: I agree! I agree! This! You’re a genius, give me more!

There’s no “why” contained in

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

Jeebus said:

Collipso said:

Just like VIII would explain Rey’s magical force powers?

All force powers are magical.

I meant how she magically acquired them.

The reason is there if you bother to look and think. Imagining that Luke’s training was typical or normal is the first problem. And then realizing that we’ve never seen anyone else’s training in the films. So Rey is only the second Jedi we have followed through the process. I’m not sure how many times Yoda has to point out the flaws in Luke’s thinking for people to realize that Yoda was desperate or Luke would never have been trained at all.

I just don’t buy your reasoning. Rey copying Kylo doesn’t work for me, because watching someone walking a tightrope, doesn’t mean I can also instantly do it. Like I said learning to access and use the Force was intimately connected to personal growth in both the OT and the PT. That element has now been completely removed. The Force awakens in you, because it somehow needs to be in balance, which would then also mean, since it awoke in Rey to counter Kylo, the Force has somehow also predetermined she’s to be or is a force for good. Though I’m not a big fan of the PT’s Chosen One angle, that at least questioned the whole idea of believing in a prophecy predicting balance, and whether the end justifies the means. Anakin did bring balance to the Force, but at a terrible price. Was Anakin created by the Sith? It was hinted at, and Lucas ultimately decided to leave it as a question mark. So, was he ultimately a force for good, or evil? With Rey it thusfar seems pretty well answered, as in my view she’s never been seriously tempted.

I think you’re making a false comparison. Walking a tightrope is a very specified skill that takes a lot of balance. It’s something very artificial because you don’t find tightropes in nature. However if you compare to other things like painting, drawing, singing, math, pod racing, flying, building things, and a host of other items, there’s a lot more realism in what they’ve done with Rey than you seem to give them credit for. People try something and discover that the course they’ve taken in life has prepared them for it and they’re good at it from the moment they start. I’m not saying that Rey is just picking up these skills on the Fly, I’m saying that her life on Jakku prepared her and that she started out in tune with nature and the force even though she didn’t know how to use it and when she sees kylo use it she can see what he’s doing and is copying him, and if it first she doesn’t get it right she does it again until she does get it right. It’s almost as if she can see what he’s doing on a level that lets her copy it precisely. Sort of like if you’re a computer programmer and you’re watching over someone shoulders as they write code that you’ve never tried to do before and you see exactly what they’re doing and so you go to your computer and you try to do the same thing and it doesn’t work the first time but then you to do it again and get it right. It is an unusual though not unheard of ability and we are seeing it in action with the force. Where Luke’s background on Tatooine did not prepare him. Yoda had to retrain him. He had doubts he had dreams and they all got in the way of him accessing the force. When he needed it and didn’t doubt it it was there. But when he thought the X-Wing was too big he couldn’t lift it. Rey sees how Kylo does things so she knows it can be done, sees how to do it, then does it herself. It is not magic. The force is often equated with magic, but the way Rey is picking up these skills is totally believable.

The old Jedi training (which we have never seen in it’s entirety) begins early in childhood. Even 9 year-old Anakin is too old. It progresses, teaching them how to access the force and what they can do with it in a slow methodical process to avoid the temptation of the dark side and build a sure and confident Jedi. The closest we have gotten to that is in Rebels. Ezra has been picking up things faster and easier than Luke. Rey is basically a force genius. Nothing magical about it at all. Let’s take a real world example. T.E. Lawrence was a cartographer. He became a great leader. What training did he have in being a general? He was just a lieutenant. He certainly had no experience. Yet the failures he encountered were not at the beginning. Then let’s take Einstein an his theory of relativity. He came up with the idea in a bus and turned his daydream into provable mathmatic equations. When they make movies about them do they bother explaining how they learn? Nope. They focus on their personal development. Sometime learning a skilled is the story, sometimes that comes too easy and the interesting story lies in other parts of their life. We spent one movie watching Luke struggle to overcome his doubts. Doing it again would be repetative. We skipped that part of Anakin’s life. With Rey, the interesting part is not her learning the force, but her role in the Skywalker saga as the foil to Kylo and part of the Resistance/Rebellion.

You seem to forget, that even Einstein went to school. Genius doesn’t just magically happen. It’s not like some random bus driver suddenly invents the theory of relativity. Genius is an extreme of talent, but it is not boundless, and it doesn’t happen instanteously, as it does with Rey. There’s no level of understanding with Rey, as there is with genius, no learning curve. That’s not how genius works, or the Force.

TLJ is different, not because it tells a very different story set in the same universe. It tells a very similar story set in a different universe. The Star Wars universe and it’s rules were broken to force different outcomes in almost identical situations. TLJ is a mix of TESB and ROTJ set in an alternate universe with similar aesthetics. The most obvious example is the character of Luke , who was deconstructed and then reassembled to fit into this alternate universe. You accept the alternate universe, then you accept this Luke Skywalker, but for people like me he’s a different character.

I agree. This universe is also pointless to the previous one, since that one told a complete story.

Plus the new one makes the previous one completely pointless as well.

I give you credit, you put thought into your posts. Collipso does as well, but that one is just whining for whining’s sake. Both statements are also factually incorrect.

The thing is that I don’t feel like the ST is part of the Star Wars saga. The OT tied up all of its loose ends, and the PT is just backstory badly executed.

The ST is just meh. I’m really glad you enjoy it though. It’s nice to see other people happy.

Without the other they both would have been dead in that confrontation.

Yes, I definitely count it as epic. The crimson red chamber was really striking, brilliant visual sequence that I cant wait to rewatch time and time again. Highlight of TLJ for me.

Zak fett said:

One part of the discussion we need. The boy at the end
Info
• Name is temri blagg
• force sensitive
• fathier carer
• Abandoned by parents (like rey)
• Slave (like anakin)
What are your thoughts on the matter and what role do you think he’ll get in IX

I think he’s meaningless and basically there to show that the Rebellion will live on. I really don’t think he’s important - it’s established that millions or billions of kids are force sensitive: he’s not special.

Whether the stable boy will be back I don’t know.

My reading at the time was that he was ‘representative’ of there being more force sensitive beings throughout the galaxy. Rather like Chirrut in Rogue One. That reading also plays in to what Luke says; “To say the Jedi dies, the Force dies, is vanity”.

Maybe he will be back though and Lucasfilm are sewing seeds for later like Disney have done in the Marvel Universe movies. Who knows.

Collipso said:

Zak fett said:

One part of the discussion we need. The boy at the end
Info
• Name is temri blagg
• force sensitive
• fathier carer
• Abandoned by parents (like rey)
• Slave (like anakin)
What are your thoughts on the matter and what role do you think he’ll get in IX

I think he’s meaningless and basically there to show that the Rebellion will live on. I really don’t think he’s important - it’s established that millions or billions of kids are force sensitive: he’s not special.

Nothing has been established yet.

I don’t have anything new/different to add to what’s already been stated, but count me among those who did not like TLJ. I didn’t like TFA, and one of the reasons is because we never saw Luke until the very end, and even then he didn’t do anything. Like, at all. And I had been so excited to see more of Jedi Luke in action. After the trainwreck of TFA, I didn’t want to see TLJ except that I already had plans to see it with my good friend who is also a life-long SW fan. And I was expecting that we’d finally see Jedi Master Luke Skywalker whip out that cool green lightsaber and start cleaning house. And maybe we’d even see some cool stuff from Leia, especially since this would likely be a farewell sendoff for Carrie Fisher.

Nope. Not even close. Not sure who that character was Mark Hamill was playing but that wasn’t Luke Skywalker. As for Leia/Mary Poppins/Supergirl, I think I’m the only person on earth or anywhere else who actually liked that scene. I understood it as the daughter of Skywalker finally showing her Force potential. In fact, I think that was the best part of TLJ, and the only scene worth watching. After that scene I thought we’d see her doing some other Force things, but nope, that was it. Now she’s apparently still around, but what are they gonna do about her in the next movie, since Carrie has passed on? Did they already film a bunch of scenes with her? Will they just have her be mentioned in expository dialogue?

I don’t care. I won’t be seeing the next episode, and if there are any scenes with Leia, I’m sure someone will point it out, and then maybe I’ll just wait until they post those scenes somewhere on the interwebz and watch them that way.

This new trilogy is really nothing more than big-budget really bad fan fiction.

My apologies for such negativity, but that’s how I really see it. As for the side movies, I really liked Rogue One, and I’m looking forward to seeing the Han Solo movie, and I’ll continue to eagerly await any new non-Episodes.

Rogue One has a lot more going for it than the end (which is still fantastic btw).

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

Not everyone needs a happy ending. You do. Don’t watch new Star Wars. Problem solved.

Yeah, but isn’t this why forums like this exist? To discuss why we jump on or off the band wagon, or why we like or dislike certain elements, or what makes a Star Wars film work for you, or not? It’s not, because we all agree. If we all agreed, we would have a first post on some random subject, followed by a few dozen: I agree! I agree! This! You’re a genius, give me more!

There’s no “why” contained in

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

Jeebus said:

Collipso said:

Just like VIII would explain Rey’s magical force powers?

All force powers are magical.

I meant how she magically acquired them.

The reason is there if you bother to look and think. Imagining that Luke’s training was typical or normal is the first problem. And then realizing that we’ve never seen anyone else’s training in the films. So Rey is only the second Jedi we have followed through the process. I’m not sure how many times Yoda has to point out the flaws in Luke’s thinking for people to realize that Yoda was desperate or Luke would never have been trained at all.

I just don’t buy your reasoning. Rey copying Kylo doesn’t work for me, because watching someone walking a tightrope, doesn’t mean I can also instantly do it. Like I said learning to access and use the Force was intimately connected to personal growth in both the OT and the PT. That element has now been completely removed. The Force awakens in you, because it somehow needs to be in balance, which would then also mean, since it awoke in Rey to counter Kylo, the Force has somehow also predetermined she’s to be or is a force for good. Though I’m not a big fan of the PT’s Chosen One angle, that at least questioned the whole idea of believing in a prophecy predicting balance, and whether the end justifies the means. Anakin did bring balance to the Force, but at a terrible price. Was Anakin created by the Sith? It was hinted at, and Lucas ultimately decided to leave it as a question mark. So, was he ultimately a force for good, or evil? With Rey it thusfar seems pretty well answered, as in my view she’s never been seriously tempted.

I think you’re making a false comparison. Walking a tightrope is a very specified skill that takes a lot of balance. It’s something very artificial because you don’t find tightropes in nature. However if you compare to other things like painting, drawing, singing, math, pod racing, flying, building things, and a host of other items, there’s a lot more realism in what they’ve done with Rey than you seem to give them credit for. People try something and discover that the course they’ve taken in life has prepared them for it and they’re good at it from the moment they start. I’m not saying that Rey is just picking up these skills on the Fly, I’m saying that her life on Jakku prepared her and that she started out in tune with nature and the force even though she didn’t know how to use it and when she sees kylo use it she can see what he’s doing and is copying him, and if it first she doesn’t get it right she does it again until she does get it right. It’s almost as if she can see what he’s doing on a level that lets her copy it precisely. Sort of like if you’re a computer programmer and you’re watching over someone shoulders as they write code that you’ve never tried to do before and you see exactly what they’re doing and so you go to your computer and you try to do the same thing and it doesn’t work the first time but then you to do it again and get it right. It is an unusual though not unheard of ability and we are seeing it in action with the force. Where Luke’s background on Tatooine did not prepare him. Yoda had to retrain him. He had doubts he had dreams and they all got in the way of him accessing the force. When he needed it and didn’t doubt it it was there. But when he thought the X-Wing was too big he couldn’t lift it. Rey sees how Kylo does things so she knows it can be done, sees how to do it, then does it herself. It is not magic. The force is often equated with magic, but the way Rey is picking up these skills is totally believable.

The old Jedi training (which we have never seen in it’s entirety) begins early in childhood. Even 9 year-old Anakin is too old. It progresses, teaching them how to access the force and what they can do with it in a slow methodical process to avoid the temptation of the dark side and build a sure and confident Jedi. The closest we have gotten to that is in Rebels. Ezra has been picking up things faster and easier than Luke. Rey is basically a force genius. Nothing magical about it at all. Let’s take a real world example. T.E. Lawrence was a cartographer. He became a great leader. What training did he have in being a general? He was just a lieutenant. He certainly had no experience. Yet the failures he encountered were not at the beginning. Then let’s take Einstein an his theory of relativity. He came up with the idea in a bus and turned his daydream into provable mathmatic equations. When they make movies about them do they bother explaining how they learn? Nope. They focus on their personal development. Sometime learning a skilled is the story, sometimes that comes too easy and the interesting story lies in other parts of their life. We spent one movie watching Luke struggle to overcome his doubts. Doing it again would be repetative. We skipped that part of Anakin’s life. With Rey, the interesting part is not her learning the force, but her role in the Skywalker saga as the foil to Kylo and part of the Resistance/Rebellion.

You seem to forget, that even Einstein went to school. Genius doesn’t just magically happen. It’s not like some random bus driver suddenly invents the theory of relativity. Genius is an extreme of talent, but it is not boundless, and it doesn’t happen instanteously, as it does with Rey. There’s no level of understanding with Rey, as there is with genius, no learning curve. That’s not how genius works, or the Force.

TLJ is different, not because it tells a very different story set in the same universe. It tells a very similar story set in a different universe. The Star Wars universe and it’s rules were broken to force different outcomes in almost identical situations. TLJ is a mix of TESB and ROTJ set in an alternate universe with similar aesthetics. The most obvious example is the character of Luke , who was deconstructed and then reassembled to fit into this alternate universe. You accept the alternate universe, then you accept this Luke Skywalker, but for people like me he’s a different character.

I agree. This universe is also pointless to the previous one, since that one told a complete story.

Plus the new one makes the previous one completely pointless as well.

I give you credit, you put thought into your posts. Collipso does as well, but that one is just whining for whining’s sake. Both statements are also factually incorrect.

The thing is that I don’t feel like the ST is part of the Star Wars saga. The OT tied up all of its loose ends, and the PT is just backstory badly executed.

The ST is just meh. I’m really glad you enjoy it though. It’s nice to see other people happy.

With all due respect, there is one film left to go in the ST. It would be like me giving my thoughts on the OT after Empire without seeing ROTJ.

This editor

Gaffer Tape said:

You know, when George Lucas used to whip out that tired old “People just want to see Darth Vader killing people with his lightsaber for two hours” excuse when people would rag on Episodes I and II, I always thought it was just a lame deflection of the prequels’ inability to tell an engaging story. But between all the negative comments about Luke in this movie and how many people I heard claim Vader’s 30 seconds on Tantive IV was the absolute best part of Rogue One, I’m beginning to think maybe he was right… 😕

Many just want infinite versions of the OT me thinks.

Gaffer Tape said:
between all the negative comments about Luke in this movie and how many people I heard claim Vader’s 30 seconds on Tantive IV was the absolute best part of Rogue One, I’m beginning to think maybe he was right… 😕

Agreed.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

Zak fett said:

One part of the discussion we need. The boy at the end
Info
• Name is temri blagg
• force sensitive
• fathier carer
• Abandoned by parents (like rey)
• Slave (like anakin)
What are your thoughts on the matter and what role do you think he’ll get in IX

I think he’s meaningless and basically there to show that the Rebellion will live on. I really don’t think he’s important - it’s established that millions or billions of kids are force sensitive: he’s not special.

Nothing has been established yet.

In the prequels it was established that there were at least thousands of force sensitive kids in the galaxy, and that the jedi were extremely purists as to who they want to train. That’s what I was referring to.

If you only acknowledge the OT and the ST though, it has never been established, you’re right.