Rey won a lightsaber fight without any training at all. This indicates that she is special and incredibly strong in the force and it begs for an explanation.
When was this lightsabre fight?
In TFA.
You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…
Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…
Um, she did win the fight. The only reason he survived or wasn’t taken prisoner is because of the planet coming apart.
No, he’s just on his arse. There was no winner due to the planet coming apart.
Go watch the fight again. He was on ass before the planet came apart. He was on the ground helpless for 15 seconds before the planet came apart and they were separated. She won the fight.
Look this and tell me she didn’t win the fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s
How about you go watch all of the fight again? And post in on here (don’t worry - I have below).
Just because - as I stated before - he is on his arse and scarred in the final few blows of the fight - doesn’t mean she won the fight.
The planet came apart before there was any ‘winner’.
Selecting certain scenes from an overall event to highlight an opinion does not make it fact. I find it baffling that you think it does.
Try watching the whole fight, here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI - and put it into context of my previous posts. Rey is on the back foot and losing the fight - on the edge of a ‘cliff’ before she let’s the force in… and even then the planet breaks apart before there any winner…
I don’t buy this. Did Luke not win the fight against Vader in ROTJ? Vader was wounded, disarmed, and on his arse like Kylo. Once Rey found her composure, and used the Force she got the better of Kylo pretty quickly. If the earthquake had not separated them, she could have sliced him in half. I would call that winning the fight.
Again, don’t take my previous comments out of context - or give conjecture to them (‘could’) - in that…
'You are referring to the sabre fight vs Ren in TFA - where he was already injured from Chewbacca’s powerful crossbow shot, was bleeding from it, also taking a hit from his sabre fight with Finn, and also felt conflicted & weak over just killing his father? In a fight in which the aim was not to kill Rey - but to bring her to Snoke… a fight in which he actually offered to be her teacher… and in which Rey was on the backfoot for nearly all of it before ‘letting the force in’…
Rey didn’t win the lightsabre fight at all… even after ‘letting the force in’ as it were - though she had gained the upper hand by scarring him & put him on his arse - yet the fight was broken up by the planet coming apart…’
For all we know Kylo could have lost his cool - in doing so ignoring Snoke’s instructions to bring her to him and sliced her in half… see conjecture…
Again, circular arguments selectively cherrypicked to try - and fail - to prove your point does you - nor you view any favours.
Sorry this makes no sense to me. You’re willfully ignoring what happens in the film. Kylo isn’t even able to properly defend himself, which is why he lands in his arse wounded and beaten. Vader did not want to kill Luke. He wanted to turn Luke. Conjecture: Vader loses his cool, ignores his master’s wishes, and slices Luke in half. Ergo, Vader didn’t lose the fight. Doesn’t sound very convincing, does it?
Snoke in TLJ:
“You got beaten by a girl? A novice?!!”
I will repeat that phrase: BEATEN. Kylo Ren got beaten in TFA. That’s the official canon.
According to Snoke’s point of view - in a dismissive put-down to Ren. That it not canon. A girl who Snoke now realises is the light rising to fight the darkness - not Skywalker as he mistakenly assumed earlier (and mentioned earlier - which again you seemed to have conveniently ignored, again).
And I didn’t mention Vader and Luke at all.
Plus, once again the planet breaks up before there is a winner.
She may well be special and strong with the force - Snoke’s on-screen ascertain to Rey that… ‘So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it’ & ‘I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger that the equal in the light would rise’ (and his mistaken assumption that was Luke - not Rey) is a statement of this. That you choose to ignore this as an explanation is on you.
As I said, I buy that explanation because this thing of the equal of the light rising wasn’t shown or referred to in any of the other movies.
Things evolve and change over the course of these films - that they aren’t mentioned or shown previously does not negate them. That it is mentioned on-screen - whether you agree, dislike, or ‘buy’ it - does not negate it.
Either it is a thing that exists or it doesn’t. If it exists what are the odds something like wouldn’t be mentioned at all?
It didn’t happen the PT, It didn’t happen between Luke and Vader. It is not mentioned at all in any previous film. That is the problem when you decide to invent something new, you have to account for its absence in the prior films. I don’t the evolve and change stuff. Either this is something the force does or it doesn’t.If you want to ignore an explanation then go ahead and ignore it - but don’t then state there wasn’t one / or that it then ‘begs for an explanation’.
Maybe I should have said “begs for a better explanation”.
It exists in this film - as stated above. You can go back and select whatever criteria you wish - it does not make it that it did not happen in this film. I don’t have to account for it not appearing for it’s absence in previous films at all - as that is not what the context of the situation is about.
Though if so, I could point out that the balance of the force - and it’s interpretation - is indeed mentioned in the PT, yes?
Nice one, thanks.
Yes, and that interpretation is, that balance to the Force is equated to destroying the Sith, as stated in ROTS by Obi-Wan, and since confirmed by Lucas in interviews after ROTS was released.
No, It is also mentioned by Mace Windu too, amongst others. Yes? Without equating the balance in destroying the Sith? Thank you for the reminder in proving my point.
George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?
Yes, the balance is mentioned without any explanation. The only explanation given in the films is the one given by Obi-Wan, hence it is the only correct interpretation. Anything else is fan fiction, or head canon. Luke’s parentage was only confirmed by Yoda in ROTJ. Should we thus ignore this fact, because it doesn’t fit a fan’s narrative? I’m sure Lucas has mentioned Vader being Luke’s father too in interviews, but…
George can say what he wants in interviews after the fact - he is hardly a paragon of consistency, or fact/truth is he?
Actually, it is mentioned in the context of the prophecy of ‘the one who will bring balance to the force’ - as previously stated, an interpretation - but actually mentioned - which was the point. This is a fact - not a fan’s narrative, yes?
Again, thanks.
I’ve had my fill of answering selective statements whilst going around in circles - again, as stated before. I’m sure you’ll have even more selective statements out of context repeatedly made for those who disagree with your opinions on TLJ. If not, there are always Rey is the Wonder Woman of Star Wars universe type quips.
As for StarWars.com articles - Rey didn’t have time to spare Kylo’s life… the erm… planet broke up before there was a winner (I think I may have mentioned it before 😉) - you can even see it in the film, in case you need to go looking for more articles to prove what actually happened in the film… didn’t happen. Or something.
G’night.
No I provided undeniable proof via the TFA screenplay. That’s what the creators intended. There’s nothing selective about that. You can keep denying the facts, if you want.
I reinterate:
Force Awakens screenplay:
CHEST. HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN
SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.
And she could kill him – right now, with ONE VICIOUS STRIKE!
But she stops. Realizing she stands on a greater edge than
even the cliff – the edge of the dark side. The earth
SHAKES. The earth splits. A gully forms.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens.html
That’s, what’s in the screenplay. That’s what’s in the film. That’s, what we’ve been arguing.
G’night.