DrDre said:
Either way none of the films suggested balance of the Force implies dark and light balancing each other, and dark rising to balance light or vicd versa. In any case this interpretation has been debunked by Lucas himself.To be fair this is inconsistent in the prequels like everything else. Lucas is hardly creating a fully developed canon ahead of time for later film makers to reference. In TPM they say the Sith were extinct, and the boy could just be “the one”. Then in (I think ROTS) this changes suddenly when Obi-wan says Anakin was destined to create balance by “destroying the Sith”. Who were extinct.
I agree, and I never really liked the Chosen One/balance angle, since it was little more than a plot device, and pretty underdeveloped.
I was actually fine with Rey’s depiction in TFA, and accepted that she was able to figure some things out for herself. She initially failed in using the Jedi mind trick, and Kylo Ren was seriously injured, and I expected her to be trained by Luke in TLJ, but in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books, and despite this her Force powers continued to grow to the extend, that she beat Luke in a duel, saved Kylo in their battle with Snoke’s guards, and moved a ton of rocks with ease. That’s where I checked out.
- She did not beat Luke in that duel
So, Luke wasn’t put on his back with Rey grabbing and pointing a lightsaber at him? I think she had the high ground, a sure win in the Star Wars universe since 2005. :p
They were in a stick duel, which Luke won because he knocked hers out of her hand. Taking out the lightsaber was cheating, of course he fell back because all he had was a stick, I don’t see how that could be construed as her winning.
Winning a battle is not about playing fair. That’s called sport. If Rey had the intention of killing Luke, he would be a Force ghost. Therefore, she won the fight. She cheated, and she, a complete novice, beat a Jedi Master.
Respectfully, that’s completely ridiculous. You can’t say “if she had the intention,” because she didn’t and Luke knew that. If she did, things would have gone differently. Even without a lightsaber Luke could have easily bested her with the force. Literally all that happened was she caught him off guard with the saber. Equating that to "she beat a Jedi master is absolutely absurd. You’re just forcing this scene to fit your argument. That’s clearly not what happened.
It’s not ridiculous. It’s about the message the scene sends to the viewer. Here we have Rey towering over Luke holding a lightsaber, forcing him to tell the truth, which he eventually does. Luke looks old, worn, and pathetic, while Rey stands over, and lectures him. If Luke could have easily bested Rey, why did he end up on his back, spilling his guts?
- She didn’t “save” Ren, she just helped him
She helped him, such that the guard wouldn’t kill Ren, ergo it makes sense to conclude she saved him.
She just gave him the saber, he saved himself. This just shows them working as a team - using this to suggest she is more powerful than him is pretty silly.
There’s nothing in that scene, that suggests she is less powerful than Kylo. Unlike Kylo, she’s able to not get herself into a jam while fighting the guards, suggestung she’s actually more competent. It is not Rey who needs help, which would have been appropriate, since she’s far less experienced, but it’s Kylo. Had she not helped Kylo, he would be in serious trouble.
You’re forcing, again. Think how common a trope it is where the main hero is about to die and someone shoots the guy about to shoot them last minute. Does that make that person who got the shot first more powerful? No. Obviously this is a bad comparison, but only because the better comparison would be a scene where the other person throws the hero a gun and then they get the shot.
Not to mention that she’s just repaying the favor, considering Kylo did essentially the same thing (though very differently) by killing Snoke.
And also, I never said Kylo is more powerful. In fact, the film outright says they are equals. Now I understand you think that’s bullshit because Rey wasn’t trained as much, but I don’t really think that even factors into this scene.
I might agree with this.
- We didn’t actually see her lift the rocks, so we don’t know how “easy” it was
They didn’t show any strain on her face, like for example with Yoda in AOTC, or Luke in TESB. Therefore it makes sense to assume it was easier for her than either of those characters. Also, Luke wasn’t able to perform such an act after being trained by Yoda, straining to keep a few rocks afloat during the training sequence.
Yoda makes it clear that Luke could lift the x-wing if he had the right mindset. This isn’t like training to lift weights or being at a high level in a video game to do a certain power. It’s a matter of tapping properly into your potential.
I have problems with this scene myself but I don’t see anything wrong with the simple fact of her having the ability to lift rocks.
Considering that she’s been able to do all this Jedi stuff with zero effort, this lifting rocks thing is just the cherry on the cake for me. It contrasts strongly with the Luke lifting the X-wing scene, with the film seemingly suggesting Rey’s just better than Luke at everything, despite not recieving any training, or studying the Force herself. She just magically has these powers. That makes her a bland character for me. It’s not enough for her to be talented like Luke, the next new hope, she needs to be Luke on steroids.
I don’t think the film suggests she’s better than Luke at all. I mean yes, technically if you compare them she is, but the film doesn’t make a big deal of it, she just is and I don’t really understand what’s wrong with that (I guess it’s that old EU thing of “Luke is the most powerful force user ever”?). Yes she has these powers magically. Because the force is magic. No it doesn’t follow the exact arc of physical training that Luke received. But that doesn’t make her a bland character at all. Are superheroes bland characters because they get their powers in an instant? No, of course not (and that’s not saying that Rey becomes a superhero in an instant). The depth that her character has does not come from her physical journey. It comes from her internal, emotional journey.
Hate to say it, but this is an instance of people being mad that Rey isn’t exactly like Luke.
It’s not that she’s exactly like Luke, or that she can’t be more talented. It’s that her progression contradicts everything that’s been established about the Force and how you can learn to use it. The only emotional journey Rey get’s in this film is the discovery of her parentage. Otherwise she’s not really emotionally or physically challenged. I said this before, but just compare the scene of Rey coming to the rescue of the Resistance at the end of TLJ, lifting the rocks, with Luke hanging below Cloud City, pleading to be rescued by his friends. The difference is astounding, and is the most clear visual evidence of Luke’s emotional journey and physical ordeal versus Rey’s lack of both.