DrDre said:
Yeah, but that just a way of bypassing the argument.By weighing up the things we see on screen and coming to a rational conclusion? TFA aside what does she do in TLJ that makes her so perfect? Screw everything up and give Kylo a swanky throne? Made of solid gold? I don’t get it. Then again we had a whole debate about how Luke never choked anyone, so who knows what powers of inference anybody has these days. So many angry people.
I wasn’t part of the Luke Force choke debate, sorry.
Given Mark Hammill believe Luke never used Force Choke we can put that debate to bed.
I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.
anyone know exactly what the screenplay says in that scene?
It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on the screen, and they’re clearly being choked. They make gurgling sounds and put their hands up to their throats.
The screenplay might show what they intended Luke to be doing in that scene.
Why is this still a debate?
Because I’ve watched that scene millions of times over the last 34 years since it came out, and I never got the idea he was using force choke.
I posted the quotes from the novelization AND the screenplay on pg. 106 (is anyone listening?! LOL!!!)
Those were discussed. The novelization is obviously at odds with what we see on screen and you must contend that even if everything else in that quote is wrong (dropping weapons, falling to knees) then at least the choking is true. The screenplay lines up with my view of the scene and rather than being “less specific” as you say, simply describes something very different from the novel. I don’t begrudge the inferences you wish to draw from the scene, but I think it is way more ambiguous than many are willing to accept.
But the screenplays out there are condensed versions. Most of the stage directions etc are missing. Things are also changed during filming. But How anyone can not see that it is a force choke ( with the guards making CLEAR chocking sounds and grabbing their throats , although one struggles to get his hand in the right position due to the size and padding of the suit) is beyond me. Sorry, but you can’t deny they are choking. It’s as clear as day.
And Mark saying Luke wouldn’t do the force choke was off a quick question and answer vid. He just forgot (which he admitted after). After all this is the guy who has admitted that he hasn’t watched the films outside of their premieres.