The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 48

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at.

Maybe that’s part of the problem.

Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Ok.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

Women are only supposed to be at home with the kids?

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

I’m guessing you’re a white male so you never felt misrepresented. I bet the rest of the world did.
The point they’re trying to make is that nobody cared about women being represented, so they (creative minds behind the original trilogy) created worlds where it would be inconvenient for women to show up in, because it didn’t even cross their minds while they were making the OT that women should be represented too.

Edit: I don’t blame them though, specifically Lucas. He was just a rich white guy making movies about white guys with their cars and white cowboys, farmers and samurai in space.

chyron8472 said:

Ryan said:

Wexter said:

Ryan said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

The (not so) slight rehash of TFA was an issue. But back then I truly believed it served a specific purpose. To “begin to make things right”. Reintroduce the familiar and introduce the new, so that from there the story can go where it has never gone before. And then the rehash kept going, while most people applauded for something we’ve never seen before in Star Wars.

TFA and TLJ wouldn’t have been a rehash if there was no “New Order” type thing in these new movies. i.e. no Death Star, no Storm Troopers, No Star Destroyers, etc. and then you don’t get any rehash.

I wish I could go to an alternate universe and watch their ST that didn’t have a “New Order” type thing in it.

I’d say you could even have an imperial remnant being the villain group and still tell a completely original story. However, I feel like that was never an option with Disney. They just hired people to do something very similar to the OT.

(Once again, this is just a feeling I get from it all. I personally don’t know anybody who attends Disney staff meetings.)

I can say this. The prequels feel like their own thing. Even with Clone Troopers and Palpatine. Those movies I never felt like Lucas was rehashing the OT.

I don’t feel like TLJ is rehashing the OT. In fact, I feel like people expected it to rehash the OT and are angry that it didn’t.

They’re also angry because they thought they knew the motivations of Luke as per the OT and are offended that his ST character doesn’t fit into the box they wanted for him to fit in.

I thought it felt like a rehash with Luke on an isolated planet acting all goofy. Just like Yoda in Empire. Then you had the walkers on that planet on what “appeared” like ice which was similar to the walkers on Hoth in Empire. You had Rey training with a Jedi Master on that planet like with Luke and Yoda in Empire. Just off the top of my head.

I am surprised a hand or something didn’t get cut off. At least I don’t remember it happening. This is definitely a movie I will have to watch many times as it felt like a bunch of stuff crammed into it and is a blur.

Started reading this thread a few days ago but am struggling to catch up to the end of it so just putting in some initial comments.

I’m still actually processing what happens in this movie and how drastically different it is to TFA and the about face it does on everything setup in the previous film by JJ.

Having read a number of reviews on both sides of the fence, some analysis articles and some very informative and considered replies in this thread thus far (up to page 26) that helped me see another side on some of the matters and even appreciate them to a certain extent, I still find myself extremely conflicted on many aspects but I very much feel myself coming down on the side of disliking if not outright hating this film and everything it f**ks up in trying to bury the past and setup the franchise to continue on with its new cast of “Star Wars Heroes” with new rules that don’t mesh with the OT and are forgotten whenever it is convenient for poor and lazy writing.

Essentially I was extremely disappointed coming out of the cinema after going in fairly hopeful for at least a good SW movie if not a great one from what I’d seen in the trailers and had been setup by TFA. There were many elements I really liked but overall it left me feeling really deflated and it almost feels like a seperate entity to the rest of the saga.

TFA was not a great movie, it had its issues but it was still fun and I overall enjoyed it and most of all it helped reignite the spark of joy in watching non OT SW movies and the desire to see more of it, to eagerly anticipate where it was going to take me. RJ pretty much shot that feeling to pieces, set them on fire and stamped on the surviving ashes. At this stage I really have no desire to watch IX and am pretty much resigned to understanding that the OT will be the only trilogy I truly care about and can enjoy without any terms and conditions attached.

Anyway, I feel I want to discuss the matter in much greater detail but I’m not sure when I’ll have the time. So until then, I basically side with everything DrDre has said up till page 26 (where I’ve read to so far). His logic and thought process on all the matters he addresses is nearly a mirror for what I would say and I can’t agree more with what he states are the issues with this movie.

.Val

chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

Ryan said:

Wexter said:

Ryan said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

The (not so) slight rehash of TFA was an issue. But back then I truly believed it served a specific purpose. To “begin to make things right”. Reintroduce the familiar and introduce the new, so that from there the story can go where it has never gone before. And then the rehash kept going, while most people applauded for something we’ve never seen before in Star Wars.

TFA and TLJ wouldn’t have been a rehash if there was no “New Order” type thing in these new movies. i.e. no Death Star, no Storm Troopers, No Star Destroyers, etc. and then you don’t get any rehash.

I wish I could go to an alternate universe and watch their ST that didn’t have a “New Order” type thing in it.

I’d say you could even have an imperial remnant being the villain group and still tell a completely original story. However, I feel like that was never an option with Disney. They just hired people to do something very similar to the OT.

(Once again, this is just a feeling I get from it all. I personally don’t know anybody who attends Disney staff meetings.)

I can say this. The prequels feel like their own thing. Even with Clone Troopers and Palpatine. Those movies I never felt like Lucas was rehashing the OT.

As much as I hate the prequels, I agree. TPM relied heavily on the story of ANH and added some politics for padding, but there was an original idea behind both AOTC and ROTS. If only those basic ideas were handed to a competent screenwriter and made into films by a skilled director, those could have been worthy additions to the saga. As they stand now, they are beyond saving, but not for the lack of originality.

Whereas TLJ, conversely, was handed to a competent screenwriter and skilled director but is likewise irredeemable due to lack of originality?

Based on this film alone, I have no reason to assume RJ was a good choice for the screenwriting. I consider the film quite well made in several aspects, but ultimately badly/lazily written.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at.

Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Women are only supposed to be at home with the kids?

Don’t start down this road, please.

I’m not the one who started down this road, I’m just not gonna pretend it wasn’t said already.

FWIW I should have just reported Dre and it would have saved more drama, but that ship has already sailed. So at any rate my apologies for making it worse with my knee-jerk reaction.

Still doesn’t make what he said any less shitty though.

The hell is wrong with people… And yes I am talking about you you’re silly sock account. go find something more interesting to do with your free time.

Collipso said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

I’m guessing you’re a white male so you never felt misrepresented. I bet the rest of the world did.
The point they’re trying to make is that nobody cared about women being represented, so they (creative minds behind the original trilogy) created worlds where it would be inconvenient for women to show up in, because it didn’t even cross their minds while they were making the OT that women should be represented too.

Edit: I don’t blame them though, specifically Lucas. He was just a rich white guy making movies about white guys with their cars and white cowboys, farmers and samurai in space.

If Star Wars was originally made in Mexico or South America, then they’d all be Hispanic. If in China or Japan, then Asian. If in South Korea, then Vietnamese. If Africa, then all or mostly black.

Really don’t understand what you mean the rest of the world probably felt underrepresented in an American made movie based in another galaxy with 100% aliens?

Can we just separate for one moment what goes on within the screen from what goes on outside it?

Nope, there are no women in Star Wars because in ancient traditions war is a subject relative to men. And it’s absolutely logic that in a fictional tale, that takes place in a fictional galaxy and that borrows from traditional sources women are to be not as represented.

Yet no one complains here about Ahsoka Tano, or about Ayla Secura, or about female Jedi masters in the PT. Nor about Leia or Padmè. Because their inclusion didn’t feel forced. No one complained about Windu being portrayed by Samuel Jackson neither.
As probably Holdo’s inclusion wouldn’t have felt forced were it not for the fact that there already was Admiral Ackbar to be used, there already was Leia to be a strong woman in charge. And she has been there since the 80s. So to many of us the sole point of some characters is to push an agenda very well outside the logic of the movie. And it just doesn’t fit the Star Wars mythos to many of us. So what’s the problem with it?

Why does a girl have to be “represented” on screen as a soldier? In the end, being a market product it just explains itself within the logic of market and therefore it’s not even femminism, it’s just plain toy selling and widening the market base.

I totally can take RJ’s new trilogy, outside the Skywalker saga being about the most misrepresented social sector taking over the galaxy and bossing people around. It’s a LFL product and have this kind of inclusion is not only good but even necessary…both for equality reasons and market reasons. Yet being it a different tale, set with a totally different perspective, it can have its own rules and take it wherever he wants to.

The thing is they just included a bunch of stuff that didn’t pertain to the repertory of the original saga in it, when they have plenty of room to do their stuff somewhere else.

Though in the end, it’s their story, they own it and they can do with it whatever they want.

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

I’m guessing you’re a white male so you never felt misrepresented. I bet the rest of the world did.
The point they’re trying to make is that nobody cared about women being represented, so they (creative minds behind the original trilogy) created worlds where it would be inconvenient for women to show up in, because it didn’t even cross their minds while they were making the OT that women should be represented too.

Edit: I don’t blame them though, specifically Lucas. He was just a rich white guy making movies about white guys with their cars and white cowboys, farmers and samurai in space.

If Star Wars was originally made in Mexico or South America, then they’d all be Hispanic. If in China or Japan, then Asian. If in South Korea, then Vietnamese. If Africa, then all or mostly black.

Oh my god what is this even supposed to mean?

Is this why people keep calling Rose “the Asian chick”?

So ah… anyone who isn’t joyless and/or toxic want to get a disqus channel going until the TLJ heat dies down? Cause it kind of fucking sucks here right now.

joefavs said:

So ah… anyone who isn’t joyless and/or toxic want to get a disqus channel going until the TLJ heat dies down? Cause it kind of fucking sucks here right now.

I’m toxic but I enjoyed the movie!

Oh crap you said and/or, I missed that part.

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

I’m guessing you’re a white male so you never felt misrepresented. I bet the rest of the world did.
The point they’re trying to make is that nobody cared about women being represented, so they (creative minds behind the original trilogy) created worlds where it would be inconvenient for women to show up in, because it didn’t even cross their minds while they were making the OT that women should be represented too.

Edit: I don’t blame them though, specifically Lucas. He was just a rich white guy making movies about white guys with their cars and white cowboys, farmers and samurai in space.

If Star Wars was originally made in Mexico or South America, then they’d all be Hispanic. If in China or Japan, then Asian. If in South Korea, then Vietnamese. If Africa, then all or mostly black.

Really don’t understand what you mean the rest of the world probably felt underrepresented in an American made movie based in another galaxy with 100% aliens?

Yep, that’s what I said. Lucas was just a white American guy making white American guys’ movies, and I’m ok with that. In a way it has more depth to it than with the crazy inclusion thing that’s going on these days. It feels mass produced, but eh what can we do about it.

dahmage said:

go find something more interesting to do with your free time.

Even though not aimed at me, excellent advice.

Out for now.

Seriously people, diversity of the cast is NOT one of this film’s problems. The diversity may feel somewhat forced in the Disney Star Wars, but while there are people actually being butthurt about the diverse cast, it is actually right to emphasize diversity, even if its only for the sake of it (which I’m not 100% sure it is).

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

Star Wars is in another galaxy far far away.

So the “humans” are aliens who just look like humans. This isn’t something happening on Earth.

So this other galaxy has to be male-dominated to the point of ridiculousness?

Also, most of the OT is pretty much in a warzone. If you watch WWII type movies, there aren’t a lot of women in the warzone, etc.

Yeah, there’s a reason for that, and it’s not because women can’t fight.

No, just saying that Star Wars takes place in another galaxy with 100% aliens.

And so what?

Also, watching the OT, don’t really see in those movies where all these “women” humanoids should have all shown up in? Death Star, Dagoba, Endor?

Maybe because the movies were made in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a male-dominated galaxy was supposed to be part of the story?

I’ve watched the OT over 10 times and I’ve never once asked myself where are the crowds of women at. Most of the movies are a battle scene, and it seems like most of the “aliens” that we can see in the flesh are creatures and robots.

Do you really want to have scenes of families in the Death Star and say on Hoth and Endor? Like a scene with a Storm Trooper on the Death Star goes to his quarters and complains to his wife about something Vader said?

I’m guessing you’re a white male so you never felt misrepresented. I bet the rest of the world did.
The point they’re trying to make is that nobody cared about women being represented, so they (creative minds behind the original trilogy) created worlds where it would be inconvenient for women to show up in, because it didn’t even cross their minds while they were making the OT that women should be represented too.

Edit: I don’t blame them though, specifically Lucas. He was just a rich white guy making movies about white guys with their cars and white cowboys, farmers and samurai in space.

If Star Wars was originally made in Mexico or South America, then they’d all be Hispanic. If in China or Japan, then Asian. If in South Korea, then Vietnamese. If Africa, then all or mostly black.

Oh my god what is this even supposed to mean?

Is this why people keep calling Rose “the Asian chick”?

It’s a response to someone talking about a “White Male” and with the rest of the world feeling underrepresented in the OT trilogy. I’m explaining how if Star Wars was originally made in other countries, then most of the actors would have been the dominate race in their country. The thing too is Star Wars is 100% aliens anyways. There are not any humans in Star Wars.

Star Wars is the space chase in Empire. A hyperdrive that malfunctions while making a whining noise just as you need to use it. One that can be fixed by Han banging on his space hotrod like Fonzie. Flying into an asteroid belt despite the odds. Out-piloting TIE fighters as they crash into rocks behind you.

Star Wars is NOT having some officer suddenly bring up “fuel” for the first time in 8 movies, and explain to you why we have to spend the next 18 hours in this slow-speed chase with poor plot and drama. All while easy in-universe logic gives you 10 reasons why this situation shouldn’t happen.

The Last Jedi was as bad as the Prequels, but with good acting. I’d say good dialog, too, but it lost that one thanks to the marvel quip humor.

If I ever watch this movie again it’ll be the fan edit that cuts out everything except Luke/Rey/Kylo.

Nandi said:

Wexter said:

Seriously people, diversity of the cast is NOT one of this film’s problems. The diversity may feel somewhat forced in the Disney Star Wars, but while there are people actually being butthurt about the diverse cast, it is actually right to emphasize diversity, even if its only for the sake of it (which I’m not 100% sure it is).

We all agree about equality.
Problem rise when you intentionally make all oposite sex characters worthless (cowards, stupid etc).

I honestly don’t think that is what’s happening here.

chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

No. TLJ has plot twists galore. The main thing about the film is you think you know what’s going to happen but then it doesn’t. And that’s why it’s great.

You think Snoke is going to be the next Palpatine (ie. big bad who dies at the end of the third film), but he’s not.

You think Luke is going to mentor Rey but he doesn’t.

You think Leia is dead but she’s not.

You think someone or something on the Light Side is connecting Rey and Ren, but it’s Snoke, but it’s again not really.

You think Finn is going to destroy the tracker but he doesn’t and gets caught. You think there’s no way out except then BB-8 shows up in a chicken walker.

You think Poe is going to save the cruiser but he doesn’t.

You think it’s the Vice Admiral coming through the door but it isn’t.

You think Luke is on the planet fighting Ren but he’s not.

You think Ren is going to kill Rey but he doesn’t—he does exactly what Vader wanted to do in ESB but couldn’t.

 

It’s the best thing about the film. It keeps throwing curve balls.

Oh, and that business about Rey’s family being nobodies from nowheresville, Ren told her that, so there is no guarantee that he was not lying. But even if he wasn’t, I like the idea that not the whole of the The Force hinges directly on descendants of the House of Skywalker (as many people speculated that she was a daughter of Luke or Leia). As has been pointed out, many fans are now trying to speculate who “broom boy” at the end’s parents might be, when the point was that the Light Side would still continue with or without the Jedi Order, and in people whom you don’t expect.

That’s not plot twist galore, that’s a variation.

You can’t possibly tell me with a straight face that you expected Snoke to die when he did. Now that he died in the second film, that makes him no longer akin to the Emperor, since now there is a whole third of the trilogy without him. Palpatine was an integral part of the third act of Return of the Jedi. But Snoke is dead. Snoke is now no longer a part of the story going forward. And that’s a twist because everyone expected him to play the part of the Emperor from start to finish.

The problem is that Snoke shouldn’t have been in the trilogy to begin with. Hard to “subvert” this thing when no one cared about the character or knew who the eff he was. I’m glad he’s dead just so we don’t have to deal with him in IX, not because I think it was impressive to kill Snoke. Kylo should have been in some “different” organization to start this trilogy, not just Empire 2.