The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 39

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

It’s weird because I ahead always thought that Luke would be the unconventional Jedi that would walk away from the dogmatic Jedi Order from the past. Guess I was wrong, and he followed the Jedi just like those who came before him, and Rey is now what Luke was.

Except that Luke does the opposite when we reach the end of his arc. He accepts that the old way has come time to go away with the scene with Yoda, and he reaffirms what the Jedi are about when he saves the Resistance and his friends. It’s also the greatest act of epic pacifism that we have seen in all of Star Wars.

So he basically did the exact same thing he did in the end of RotJ in a more badass way?

EDIT: TLDR - Rotj is Luke learning to believe in others despite their flaws. TLJ is Luke learning to believe in himself despite his mistakes.

I actually quite like this, though I’m not sure if I buy it.

I thought TLJ sold it great. They reference his act of compassion in RotJ and how it brought him to legendary status and how this led to Luke’s downfall. TLJ shows that Luke wasn’t yet fully realized as a hero, and that he still was grappling with how his actions in RotJ changed how others and he saw himself.

Yeah, I guess the thing is I don’t like how he died and ultimately failed his goal. He simply learned his lesson and passed the torch on to Rey. Had they let him live and lead the new real Jedi/Force User group, I think it would’ve been perfect. The way it was executed leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth, because so far in the ST they have just gotten the arcs from the OT and thrown them into a trash can. At least Luke’s. They kind of redeemed Han, but Leia apparently lost everything she has ever fought and is inevitably going to die.

Luke isn’t really all that gone. He can still help as a force ghost, and he sure as heck did not fail. It’s made pretty clear that Luke saved what was left of the resistance, publicly humiliated Kylo and the First Order, and will serve as the spark in the universe that will ultimately destroy the first order. Before he died, he basically embodied hope and purpose and completed his arc while helping the galaxy and his friends.

@darthrush
@Collipso

Consider me pulled toward the light(?), in terms of starting to like how Luke was done in TLJ after all then…

TavorX said:

@darthrush
@Collipso

Consider me pulled toward the light(?), in terms of starting to like how Luke was done in TLJ after all then…

It’s bold, it’s different, and even quite jarring on first viewing. It’s not what I wanted, it’s what I didn’t know I needed.

Like holy shit, all of a sudden, it’s like a rush over me that is reconnecting the dots between the events of the past and the Luke we get in TLJ. Ben Solo at the time was a risk/threat to Luke’s new Jedi Academy. This Academy meant so much to Luke, it’s what his masters would be proud of and the burden he had on his shoulders to make it happen. The moment one single student would burn it, he had a moment where he snaps, hence the moment where he ignites the lightsaber in Kylo’s hut. But the passive Luke we know was always there because as he said, he immediately regretted it. It wasn’t only his mistake of freaking out Ben Solo at the time that made Kylo Ren, it was his huge narrow mindset that his sole purpose, especially as a legend, was to rebuild a Jedi Order once again from scratch.

But since he failed that, that was it, he felt overwhelmed. He let his masters down (so he thought), he let Han and Leia down, he failed Ben Solo, and he let the galaxy down. The galaxy has no room for legends that can’t live up to the burden bestowed on Luke.

I know I’m restating what most of these posters in this thread have been trying to get into my thick skull, but idk, it just clicked for me finally whenever darthrush dropped that comment about how Luke losing his raison d’etre logically leads to the loss of faith Luke we eventually get.

We’re all pretending the OT was all planned out at the beginning.

Honestly, TLJ going a completely different direction because it wasn’t planned out ahead of time is exactly what we got in Vader being Luke’s father, and Leia being his sister. The PT suffered from a lackluster continuity which was planned from the start - sure it was tweaked, but the story idea was there already.

Empire gave us a shocking ending, RotJ tried to match and failed. The prequels didn’t need to shock us the same way because we already knew the eventual outcome. Rogue One did great at offering a shocking ending, as well as a nice segway.

TFA attempted a different kind of shock ending, which was the cliffhanger with no payoff. While unexpected, it again failed to reach the originality level of ESB.

TLJ… succeeded in surprising us and telling a story in a different (very chaotic) way. As a single film, I can enjoy the frantic flow. Hopefully the next film won’t fall into the pitfall of RotJ and base itself on that same theme as a wow factor though, because i could never enjoy another film with this storytelling style.

TavorX said:

Like holy shit, all of a sudden, it’s like a rush over me that is reconnecting the dots between the events of the past and the Luke we get in TLJ. Ben Solo at the time was a risk/threat to Luke’s new Jedi Academy. This Academy meant so much to Luke, it’s what his masters would be proud of and the burden he had on his shoulders to make it happen. The moment one single student would burn it, he had a moment where he snaps, hence the moment where he ignites the lightsaber in Kylo’s hut. But the passive Luke we know was always there because as he said, he immediately regretted it. It wasn’t only his mistake of freaking out Ben Solo at the time that made Kylo Ren, it was his huge narrow mindset that his sole purpose, especially as a legend, was to rebuild a Jedi Order once again from scratch.

But since he failed that, that was it, he felt overwhelmed. He let his masters down (so he thought), he let Han and Leia down, he failed Ben Solo, and he let the galaxy down. The galaxy has no room for legends that can’t live up to the burden bestowed on Luke.

I know I’m restating what most of these posters in this thread have been trying to get into my thick skull, but idk, it just clicked for me finally whenever darthrush dropped that comment about how Luke losing his raison d’etre logically leads to the loss of faith Luke we eventually get.

I also saw the flashback moment as Luke seeing things like his close friends dying too (Han). It wasn’t just the academy. It was his friends and the galactic state. Someone on here compared it to Luke having the chance to kill baby hitler and that’s a good way of putting it. He let his deep down flaws take a hold of him and what he had foreseen in that moment and he realized that he failed his apprentice. The coincidence of Ben waking up and the whole situation just led everything to the tragedy that happened and Luke felt like a complete failure to everyone around him.

Had they shown an image of Snoke reaching towards Luke from Ben’s eye, it could’ve patched up the entire concept, with minimal damage to the self-disgraced Luke angle.

Yoda-Nazi said:

darthrush said:
Someone on here compared it to Luke having the chance to kill baby hitler

Kylo is not baby Hitler. Luke is a coward and a bad guy for trying to kill a kid. Following in the footsteps of his father.

…and Kylo was following in his grandfather footsteps. Wait both Luke and Kylo were following Vader’s footsteps? Darth Luke Force Ghost and Supreme Leader Kylo Ren as the main villains for IX CONFIRMED!

nightstalkerpoet said:

Had they shown an image of Snoke reaching towards Luke from Ben’s eye, it could’ve patched up the entire concept, with minimal damage to the self-disgraced Luke angle.

I’m so lost what you mean by this. You’re saying Snoke should reveal himself influencing Luke? That doesn’t make sense; why then would Kylo serve Snoke in the first place cause now it sounds as if Snoke was using Luke to kill Kylo. I don’t get it.

The galaxy isn’t able to be saved. It is a living breathing entity, constantly changing. The Jedi attempt to “Domesticate” the Force, the Sith like to “let it run free” (when they’re not hiding it, thus why their force powers are so cabin fevery).

Rey is balance. Rey shapes the force to her will only when necessary - there is no need for her to try and control or trap the Force. She has spent years alone, literally watching the world pass her by. Finally, she has reaches out and finds the Force available to grab ahold of. She keeps grabbing on, seeing how much further forward the force will pull her. Eventually she’ll feel safe enough to never let go.

Imagine that the Force is a treadmill. Jedi walk at slow speeds for the longest durations. Sith turn up the speed as high as they can, until they can barely keep up or get thrown off. Rey just uses the last speed it was set at every time, and keeps up with it. Ultimately, it’s about learning to control yourself versus learning to control your surroundings (for good or evil). For Luke to become her true teacher, he had to understand those things first. TLJ is the story of Luke learning that. In that moment of understanding, he grabbed onto the force with the purity and ease that Rey does. His body couldn’t handle that - only hers can.

Or that’s kinda the alignment perception I got from the film.