The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 29

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

Dre, you’re trying to say that Snoke not being able to read Rey’s mind whilst she’s on Jedi Island is a plothole?!

You’re frustratingly inconsistent. One minute you’re arguing a case that Force users need to be geographically near each other to telepathically commune. The next you’re saying that Poe having his mind read during interrogation by Kylo isn’t canon, and only Force Users can read other Force Users minds - even when you’ve been shown to be wrong about that.

No, I’m very consistent. I’m stating:

1. In the OT the Force users originally (at least up till 1983) needed to be geographically near each other to telepathically commune.

2. There’s no evidence in the OT itself, that Force users can read non-Force users minds. This has to be inferred from EU material and movies released after the OT.

3. The Jedi mind probe is a retcon, that was subsequently prominently featured in TFA. I have no problem with this.

4. The ST changes the rules by allowing Force users to telepathically commune over much larger distances. I have no problem with this either.

5. That TLJ applies the ST rules inconsistently. This is a problem for me.

The truth is you’ve devised some personal ‘rule system’ for how force powers work, it ignores actual canon and makes sense to no one but yourself, but you cant seem to grasp that.

I don’t ignore canon, but I also don’t ignore how these powers were first introduced to the audience, starting in 1977.

The truth is we are shown new Force powers on pretty much a movie by movie basis. If you’re going to be adamant and say that only the Force powers you saw in ANH in 1977 are valid and all the rest are bogus then you’re going to be disappointed by every new Star Wars movie that comes out, because I guarantee the Force will evolve in every episode because audiences thrive on ‘the new’. The force powers shown in The Last Jedi don’t contradict those that have gone before, in fact the whole approach to the Force as a naturalistic elemental power rather than one wielded exclusively by those born to be Jedi (“the vanity of the Jedi to think it belonged to them”) is one of the great successes of The Last Jedi.

I’m fine with introducing new powers as long as these powers are used in a consistent manner in the same movie, and don’t cause inconsistencies in previously released films, that weren’t there before, or can be reasonably explained in-universe.

I suspect you will reply to this as you seem determined to have the last word, but for me you are the type of Star Wars fan that nitpicks the fantasy to death - and sadly it appears you have killed the enjoyment of it for yourself.

The Force powers introduced in the ST are fine by me, but it makes no sense for Snoke to be able to link the minds of Rey and Kylo, allow them to read each other’s minds, see each other and touch each other, and then claim Snoke can’t read Rey’s mind. This is nonsense.

If Snoke can do all these amazing things with the Force from a trillion miles away, including allowing Kylo to read Rey’s mind, and vice versa, he can read Rey’s mind himself, period. The fact that he doesn’t do this to find her and Luke’s location is inconsistent and contrived. It’s that simple. I will still enjoy the movie, as I have, but it’s a movie with flaws, and this is one of the big ones.

I’m pretty sure he reads her mind, doesn’t he? He even talks about dealing with Skywalker after they kill the rebels. Or are you talking about how he should have read her mind while she was still on the island?

Yes, exactly. Snoke wants to find and destroy Luke Skywalker. To do this he enacts an elaborate scheme to connect Rey and Kylo’s minds, to convince Rey that if she comes to Kylo, he will turn back to the light side. However, this is a ruse, because Snoke wants Rey to reveal Luke’s location. However, since he was able to allow Kylo and Rey to read each other’s minds, see and even touch each other (influence their visual cortex, and cerebrum), he should have been able to read Rey’s mind directly as he did in the throne room. He could thus have immediately discovered Luke’s location, while Rey was still on the island, and send Kylo and his troops to destroy both.

I don’t mean to seem like i am jumping in here, but i find myself wondering if they really can read each other’s minds when connected via the force. I don’t remember that ever happening? They saw each other’s 'future’when they touched hands… that is all i come up with.

Kylo could see who her parents are in her mind. He stated this in the film. He subsequently reveals the information in the throne room.

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

dahmage said:

also, wasn’t the point of connecting their minds, to trick Rey into coming to him? finding luke from Rey was just a part 2 of the plan, not the whole plan. Rey was someone to be dealt with on her own based on her force use in TFA, snoke knew this.

Yeah, but why trick Rey to come to him, if he can send an armada to come to them, and get both Rey and Luke?

The props in movie didn’t look quite right to me – they looked cheap. I remember thinking during the movie that I would expect to see such props on a Disney ride! This includes the silly fish Luke spears, a number of the robots, and the alien creatures, all of which looked about as good as those dinosaurs on that 1990s show about dinosaur people that Jim Henson did.

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

also, wasn’t the point of connecting their minds, to trick Rey into coming to him? finding luke from Rey was just a part 2 of the plan, not the whole plan. Rey was someone to be dealt with on her own based on her force use in TFA, snoke knew this.

Yeah, but why trick Rey to come to him, if he can send an armada to come to them, and get both Rey and Luke?

this is again your thinking though. no evidence that he knows where they are!

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

Dre, you’re trying to say that Snoke not being able to read Rey’s mind whilst she’s on Jedi Island is a plothole?!

You’re frustratingly inconsistent. One minute you’re arguing a case that Force users need to be geographically near each other to telepathically commune. The next you’re saying that Poe having his mind read during interrogation by Kylo isn’t canon, and only Force Users can read other Force Users minds - even when you’ve been shown to be wrong about that.

No, I’m very consistent. I’m stating:

1. In the OT the Force users originally (at least up till 1983) needed to be geographically near each other to telepathically commune.

2. There’s no evidence in the OT itself, that Force users can read non-Force users minds. This has to be inferred from EU material and movies released after the OT.

3. The Jedi mind probe is a retcon, that was subsequently prominently featured in TFA. I have no problem with this.

4. The ST changes the rules by allowing Force users to telepathically commune over much larger distances. I have no problem with this either.

5. That TLJ applies the ST rules inconsistently. This is a problem for me.

The truth is you’ve devised some personal ‘rule system’ for how force powers work, it ignores actual canon and makes sense to no one but yourself, but you cant seem to grasp that.

I don’t ignore canon, but I also don’t ignore how these powers were first introduced to the audience, starting in 1977.

The truth is we are shown new Force powers on pretty much a movie by movie basis. If you’re going to be adamant and say that only the Force powers you saw in ANH in 1977 are valid and all the rest are bogus then you’re going to be disappointed by every new Star Wars movie that comes out, because I guarantee the Force will evolve in every episode because audiences thrive on ‘the new’. The force powers shown in The Last Jedi don’t contradict those that have gone before, in fact the whole approach to the Force as a naturalistic elemental power rather than one wielded exclusively by those born to be Jedi (“the vanity of the Jedi to think it belonged to them”) is one of the great successes of The Last Jedi.

I’m fine with introducing new powers as long as these powers are used in a consistent manner in the same movie, and don’t cause inconsistencies in previously released films, that weren’t there before, or can be reasonably explained in-universe.

I suspect you will reply to this as you seem determined to have the last word, but for me you are the type of Star Wars fan that nitpicks the fantasy to death - and sadly it appears you have killed the enjoyment of it for yourself.

The Force powers introduced in the ST are fine by me, but it makes no sense for Snoke to be able to link the minds of Rey and Kylo, allow them to read each other’s minds, see each other and touch each other, and then claim Snoke can’t read Rey’s mind. This is nonsense.

If Snoke can do all these amazing things with the Force from a trillion miles away, including allowing Kylo to read Rey’s mind, and vice versa, he can read Rey’s mind himself, period. The fact that he doesn’t do this to find her and Luke’s location is inconsistent and contrived. It’s that simple. I will still enjoy the movie, as I have, but it’s a movie with flaws, and this is one of the big ones.

I’m pretty sure he reads her mind, doesn’t he? He even talks about dealing with Skywalker after they kill the rebels. Or are you talking about how he should have read her mind while she was still on the island?

Yes, exactly. Snoke wants to find and destroy Luke Skywalker. To do this he enacts an elaborate scheme to connect Rey and Kylo’s minds, to convince Rey that if she comes to Kylo, he will turn back to the light side. However, this is a ruse, because Snoke wants Rey to reveal Luke’s location. However, since he was able to allow Kylo and Rey to read each other’s minds, see and even touch each other (influence their visual cortex, and cerebrum), he should have been able to read Rey’s mind directly as he did in the throne room. He could thus have immediately discovered Luke’s location, while Rey was still on the island, and send Kylo and his troops to destroy both.

I don’t mean to seem like i am jumping in here, but i find myself wondering if they really can read each other’s minds when connected via the force. I don’t remember that ever happening? They saw each other’s 'future’when they touched hands… that is all i come up with.

Kylo could see who her parents are in her mind. He stated this in the film. He subsequently reveals the information in the throne room.

my memory isn’t perfect, but wasn’t this during the hand touching?

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

You’re talking semantics. He instinctively thought about killing a sleeping boy, his nephew, who hasn’t yet committed any crimes for a split second. The Luke we knew didn’t show those instincts.

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

also, wasn’t the point of connecting their minds, to trick Rey into coming to him? finding luke from Rey was just a part 2 of the plan, not the whole plan. Rey was someone to be dealt with on her own based on her force use in TFA, snoke knew this.

Yeah, but why trick Rey to come to him, if he can send an armada to come to them, and get both Rey and Luke?

this is again your thinking though. no evidence that he knows where they are!

No, but he should know. He can link their minds, get Kylo to read Rey’s mind to see hidden memories of her parents, get them to see each other, and touch each other, so he should be able to read her mind and get the information about their location. If he can make Rey and Kylo touch each other, he should be able to touch her himself, and choke the life out of her.

I don’t know, maybe he just likes to screw with their minds.

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

You’re talking semantics. He instinctively thought about killing a sleeping boy, his nephew, who hasn’t yet committed any crimes for a split second. The Luke we knew didn’t show those instincts.

I suppose. I really don’t want to make this feel like i am arguing with you, because you don’t deserve that, but i feel like the things you took from this film are just so different than what i see.

I feel like the film already answered your point. Luke was dead tired of being viewed as the perfect legend. the movie was very explicit about that. and as many other people have shared already, the film really worked this angle in lots of ways. Just think about it, your view of who and what luke is, is exactly what drove him to exile himself in the film. It is a terrible burden to have people think that you are incapable of having human flaws. I LOVED that.

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

You’re talking semantics. He instinctively thought about killing a sleeping boy, his nephew, who hasn’t yet committed any crimes for a split second. The Luke we knew didn’t show those instincts.

I suppose. I really don’t want to make this feel like i am arguing with you, because you don’t deserve that, but i feel like the things you took from this film are just so different than what i see.

I feel like the film already answered your point. Luke was dead tired of being viewed as the perfect legend. the movie was very explicit about that. and as many other people have shared already, the film really worked this angle in lots of ways. Just think about it, your view of who and what luke is, is exactly what drove him to exile himself in the film. It is a terrible burden to have people think that you are incapable of having human flaws. I LOVED that.

It’s fine. I like these debates. We don’t allways have to agree. There’s no right and wrong position. I thought Mark Hamill gave a great performance, and mostly enjoyed the movie. There are great things in this film, but some things were glossed over too quickly in my view, or underdeveloped.

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

You’re talking semantics. He instinctively thought about killing a sleeping boy, his nephew, who hasn’t yet committed any crimes for a split second. The Luke we knew didn’t show those instincts.

I think this is the same Luke that has always looked forward or “looked to the horizons” instead of concentrating on what’s in front of him. Yoda called him out on it again. This is the same Luke that has not learned from his mistakes or teachings. If he was any different, I would have been upset.

When it came to Ben, Luke was scared sh*tless about what he would become. Because of this he made a fleeting decision that he literally backed away from a second later. Luke is not perfect and he’s not the savior of the universe. I felt this made his character more believable in the end. We all make mistakes and make rash decisions that affect our lives. Why should Luke be so different? And again, if hew was concentrating on where he was and what he was doing, he wouldn’t have looked forward, freaked out, and made such a costly mistake.

This is Luke and I loved it.

Yes, I took that moment and Luke’s narration I believed backed this up that he was instinctively raising his lightsaber against the dark side - the terrible darkness - rather than against Ben Solo. Saying he was going to murder his young nephew is rather literal - it was what he glimpsed ‘within’ Ben that he instinctively thought to strike down.

Collipso said:

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

Did you read through the comments in that video? Seems like every comment they are hating what Disney has done to Star Wars and hate what they did with Luke Skywalker. Even read some comments saying they think the prequels are better than the new Star Wars Disney movies.

I really think in 5-10 years you will see the level of hate of these Disney Star Wars movies like what happened with the prequels.

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

Did you read through the comments in that video? Seems like every comment they are hating what Disney has done to Star Wars and hate what they did with Luke Skywalker. Even read some comments saying they think the prequels are better than the new Star Wars Disney movies.

I really think in 5-10 years you will see the level of hate of these Disney Star Wars movies like what happened with the prequels.

are you suggesting we take youtube comments as representative of the world at large? LOL

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

Did you read through the comments in that video? Seems like every comment they are hating what Disney has done to Star Wars and hate what they did with Luke Skywalker. Even read some comments saying they think the prequels are better than the new Star Wars Disney movies.

I really think in 5-10 years you will see the level of hate of these Disney Star Wars movies like what happened with the prequels.

Internet commenters (especially Yahoo & YouTube) are the dregs of society right now. YouTube is part of my job (I help brands) and it doesn’t matter what type of content is put out, people will find a reason to crap all over it.

I feel the opposite for the ST. I think people will grow to like it even more. I disliked TPM after the crawl and I never recovered from it. I even got to see it in advance as my parents’ neighbor worked for Kenner. I was 21 at the time.

TFA and TLJ did not come close to this for me and it’s all because I truly care about the characters and not just Luke/Han/Leia. I understand this is all personal and subjective, but I don’t see these movies ever reaching prequel levels of hatred.

dahmage said:

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

Did you read through the comments in that video? Seems like every comment they are hating what Disney has done to Star Wars and hate what they did with Luke Skywalker. Even read some comments saying they think the prequels are better than the new Star Wars Disney movies.

I really think in 5-10 years you will see the level of hate of these Disney Star Wars movies like what happened with the prequels.

are you suggesting we take youtube comments as representative of the world at large? LOL

Not at all. But I was expecting to see a mix of hate/love type thing like we see on here. But it was 100% hate on the new Star Wars and what Disney did with Luke Skywalker.

Also, there are a lot of channels on Youtube who have commentary on Star Wars over the years. And I can remember many many of them talking about how they originally loved the prequels, but years later realized that they were really crap. And then those same commentators now are all loving the new Star Wars movies. And I just think years down the road, history will repeat and they’ll say they originally liked the new Star Wars but now (future) realize they are crap.

I’ve got some channels on Youtube to check out who flipped on liking and later hating the prequels. And I’ll check out their TLJ review and check out the comments section to see where people are.

Last night before falling asleep I ran this through my mind: could we witness some kind of retconning in future SW movies (episodes)? What do you guys think?

nmr1723 said:

Ryan said:

Collipso said:

Honestly I think Hamill puts it in a much better way than any of us could.

https://youtu.be/hpu8pD9C-1s

Did you read through the comments in that video? Seems like every comment they are hating what Disney has done to Star Wars and hate what they did with Luke Skywalker. Even read some comments saying they think the prequels are better than the new Star Wars Disney movies.

I really think in 5-10 years you will see the level of hate of these Disney Star Wars movies like what happened with the prequels.

Internet commenters (especially Yahoo & YouTube) are the dregs of society right now. YouTube is part of my job (I help brands) and it doesn’t matter what type of content is put out, people will find a reason to crap all over it.

I feel the opposite for the ST. I think people will grow to like it even more. I disliked TPM after the crawl and I never recovered from it. I even got to see it in advance as my parents’ neighbor worked for Kenner. I was 21 at the time.

TFA and TLJ did not come close to this for me and it’s all because I truly care about the characters and not just Luke/Han/Leia. I understand this is all personal and subjective, but I don’t see these movies ever reaching prequel levels of hatred.

The new stuff may not get to prequel level hate later on. But we’ll find out in the future. The one advantage of the new movies is they have a lot better CGI than the prequels. So the prequels CGI looks really dated and I know one complaint people have on the prequels is the dated CGI and the crappy “green screen” backgrounds that weren’t done that well compared to today. Though the new Star Wars has some crappy CGI like Maz Kanata and that meat ball monster thing chasing Han Solo.

I still think it would have been better this new trilogy to not have the original main characters in it. I didn’t like the idea at first as Carry didn’t look good or seem like she could act good now, and she didn’t. But I warmed up to it expecting a badass Luke Skywalker kicking ass, but we really didn’t get any of that.

I’ve watched TPM probably 10+ times and I still don’t know what that movie is about.

nmr1723 said:

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

Novus_Opiate said:

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

TavorX said:

Novus_Opiate said:
He says the temptation came over him but for a brief moment. He wasn’t going to actually do it.

Yeah I get that; what I don’t get is why it even came to that point to begin with? I mean we have to consider, it wasn’t simply a tempting thought, but those thoughts actually compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and ignite it! That’s so irrational of Luke. Sure, I bet killing Kylo is a thought would had crossed anyone’s mind if they learned Kylo’s taint of the darkside, but this is Luke here. I’d buy Luke was outside of Kylo’s hut, stewing back and forth of what to do and how to confront him; however again, it’s beyond me to think this temptation compelled Luke to pull out his lightsaber and stop himself from committing the murder at the last second.

dahmage said:
Luke’s final version and what is generally accepted as the true version has Luke go in to read kylo Ren’s mind. After seeing kylo rens darkness he has what he describes as a very brief moment of thinking that it would be better to kill him. And without thinking ignited his lightsaber and immediately, immediately regretted that decision.
No, again, it makes no sense. Luke in ROTJ was struggling between whether to kill Vader or redeem him, and yes, it came to that point where he was tempted to really finish Vader off, but he came to senses to not fall for the bait. So all these years later, that lesson he learned was for nothing…?

I don’t get all these complaints that boil down to “Luke would never do that” (including disappearing in the first place) when we basically saw nothing that happened between the end of ROTJ and TFA/TLJ. People change, especially those that have suffered trauma. It’s the same complaint about Han that makes no sense either.

Sorry, but in movies you don’t change people’s characters off-screen unless it’s logical. Luke growing wiser and more confident between TESB and ROTJ is logical. Luke going from believing in his Nazi father to contemplating his nephews murder is not. Such a change of character needs to be explained more thoroughly. Given that so many don’t buy the way Luke behaves, I think it’s clear this part of the plot is underdeveloped.

I think his rash behavior in the OT and the fact that what he saw in Ben’s mind was traumatic would cause him to make the mistake of briefly “acting on instinct”. Doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibility. I’m saying it could have been developed better. Luke doesn’t just have the idea float around in his mind, he activates his lightsaber and contemplates killing a sleeping boy who hasn’t yet committed any crimes.

sorry, but “contemplates killing” is your own wording, and it is clear that you are over-inflating the problems in your descriptions of parts of the film because you didn’t like it. it wasn’t contemplation, it was an instinctual reaction that lasted a split second.

You’re talking semantics. He instinctively thought about killing a sleeping boy, his nephew, who hasn’t yet committed any crimes for a split second. The Luke we knew didn’t show those instincts.

I think this is the same Luke that has always looked forward or “looked to the horizons” instead of concentrating on what’s in front of him. Yoda called him out on it again. This is the same Luke that has not learned from his mistakes or teachings. If he was any different, I would have been upset.

I think the point of ROTJ was, that Luke was different, and had learned from his mistakes and teachings. He had also grown beyond his teachers, by seeing the good in Vader when his teachers could not.

Now part of that growth is reversed to make him more human and flawed. That brings new things to the table, but also alters the perspective on the character. Not everyone has to be on board for this. The Luke we meet in TLJ is very different from the one we left in ROTJ. It’s up to each of us to decide if TLJ sufficiently fills the gap, and if they like the moody and fearful Luke, who abandoned his friends and the universe.

When it came to Ben, Luke was scared sh*tless about what he would become. Because of this he made a fleeting decision that he literally backed away from a second later. Luke is not perfect and he’s not the savior of the universe. I felt this made his character more believable in the end. We all make mistakes and make rash decisions that affect our lives. Why should Luke be so different? And again, if hew was concentrating on where he was and what he was doing, he wouldn’t have looked forward, freaked out, and made such a costly mistake.

This is Luke and I loved it.

Like I said it is a different version of Luke as envisioned by RJ. It’s a more complex version, which is interesting, but I can’t blame anyone for missing the optimistic hero of the OT.

On opening night Thursday, when I watched TLJ, there was a screw up in my theater. As when it started, there was a loud voice over commentator. i.e. the voice thing for blind people to explain what’s happening on the screen. The voice over didn’t read the crawl but talked about the crawl going up the screen.

Anyways, with the loud voice thing, I wasn’t able to read the crawl. It was like trying to read the crawl with a really loud voice talking about things. Luckily they cut that off after like 5 minutes going into the movie.

I plan on watching it again in like a week or so.

Also I was real lucky getting a good seat. I got there 30 minutes early and there already was a huge line inside. They said they had 80% of the tickets already sold and had cut it off. So when I got in the theater, I thought all of the seats in the middle and upper section were taken. But there was one open seat halfway up right in the middle. I kept seeing a bunch of people coming in pissed off not being to get a seat in the middle and upper sections.

I was thinking I was going to have to sit in the bottom section right in front of the screen. I’ve got stuck before in a packed theater and had to sit right in front of the screen. Really sucks as you have to tilt your head all the way back to look up at the screen. And it looks all weird and stretched because you are sitting too close.