So Force users can manipulate non-force users to make them say or do what they want , but they can’t read their minds, yet can read the mind pretty easily of a trained force user? yeh, that seems logical and believable 😉
And, yes Vader DID read luke’s mind in ROTJ. “You’re thoughts betray you. You’re feelings for them are clear, especially…sister…” all this while Luke is trying hard to block Vader from accessing this thoughts. If you think Luke just let all that slip out and projected that direct to Vader, then that really diminishes his character and makes him a very weak individual and a crap jedi. It’s been clear to almost everyone since 1983 that Vader read Luke’s mind. Yet this has only now come up in an poor attempt to say how crap TLJ is.
I can understand your viewpoint on this. The “You’re thoughts betray you.” I think of that as Luke thinking out loud while he was telepathically talking with Vader. I view it as Vader prodding Luke to get him to reveal his secrets, and then Luke trying to not think about Leia and keep it a secret, but he can’t and thinks it out loud while Vader is telepathically listening to him.
The OT doesn’t establish that Vader can “read minds”. It’s actually the opposite with Vader having to resort to torture to find out information others have.
So, my theory of what’s going on in the OT is supported by what we see in the OT movies.
But let me ask, with all of the interviews that Lucas has done. Has he ever said that OT Vader could “read minds”?