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Post #1144274

Author
DrDre
Parent topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1144274/action/topic#1144274
Date created
18-Dec-2017, 8:11 AM

Matt.F said:

I never realised calling someone pedantic was such an insult! Let’s summarise.

The chap seems to have decided in his own head how magical Force mind powers work, apparently those with the Force can read other peoples minds but only other people that also have the Force. There’s no evidence within the films to state this is a ‘rule’.

In order for something to be contrived, it has to be some sort of rule. Seems pretty logical to me. There’s no precedent in the OT of Force users reading non-Force users minds, and since it would contradict the scene where Vader interrogates Leia aboard the Death Star, we can infer that Lucas didn’t intend that Force users could read a non-Force users mind, otherwise we would have seen a Kylo/Poe type of interrogation in the 1977 film.

(in fact there is evidence to say it isn’t but that evidence is in TFA and apparently that’s inadmissible, there’s also > evidence in the deleted opening of ROTJ of people communing long distance but apparently that’s inadmissible too).

This whole criticism is about the ST arbitrary changing the rules, which it then inconsistently applies. Of course you can then not use this change of the rules as evidence that the the OT breaks the rules, since this rule did not exist when the OT was released. The ROTJ deleted scene is not in the films, so can’t really be considered canon, but even so is the communing between two Force users, so it doesn’t add to the argument.

So the chap has decided to arbitrarily call it a rule that Vader cant read minds unless the person he reads has the Force.

It’s not arbitrary. There’s no evidence in the OT that Force users can read ordinary people’s minds, and a number of scenes that wouldn’t make any sense if they could. As such, it’s logical to consider it a rule, just like it’s a rule that Jedi can’t fly. Has anyone ever stated this in the films? No, but considering the fact that there are numerous occasions where flying might have been useful to a Jedi, and they didn’t, we can infer that Jedi can’t fly.

This essentially backs up some assertion he has made that Snoke’s mind powers are at odds with the rest of the Saga, ergo backs up his view that The Last Jedi is rubbish and everyone must know and agree with him how rubbish it is.

The ST is at odds with the rest of the saga, and TLJ is at odds with itself when Snoke only reads minds when the plot requires it. He conveniently forgets to do this earlier, when Rey’s still on Ach-To with Luke to find out their location.

However… Leia has the Force. As Luke says “You have that power too”. She’s a Skywalker. Always has been. She’s filled with the Force. Oodles of Force. Been there the whole time.

You need to learn how to use the Force, before you can tap into it. I delibirately used the term Force-USER, not someone with Force potential.

So I’m afraid this chaps ruling on precisely how this magical, imaginary, fictional, mystical power works does not hold water, because according to his rule Vader should have been able to read her mind.

Case closed. Court adjourned. Good day to you sir!

It’s an argument, you can provide a counter argument and discuss in a civilized manner without being a **** about it.