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Episode 3: Fan Editing Ideas Discussion — Page 9

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I can't remember R2 being with Yoda, exept the Clone Wars Cartoon (which aren't canon for me).

Some of you want to delete any reference of Vader in Episode 3. This would create some kind of inconsistence in ANH, when Obi-Wan says to Luke, that Vader killed Anakin. Everyone (especially the first time watchers) would know that Ben is a bad ass liar. So an edit of ANH hope would be nessesary to.

@MagnoliaFan:
I didn't have the chance to see your ATOC edit yet, but there is somethink that bugs me:
Since in the official version Darth Tyrannus is Syfo Dias, who did order the clone army in your version?

Off-Topic:
Yesterday I had a thought. MagnoliaFan, where did a know the name from. Then I remembered: Jay and Silent Bob strike back. Then I thought dude, was the movie inspired by MagnoliaFan, or was MagnoliaFan inspired by the movie.
But after a little thought, there was something that bugged me:
We all know that MagnoliaFan was at a test screening of Episode 3.
We know the name MagnoliaFan was in Jay and Silent Bob strike back.
We know there was some rumors Kevin Smith had done one of the phantom edits himself.
And we know that Kevin Smith was at a test screening of Episode 3.
Maybe it was the insomnia, but isn't it obvious that MagnoliaFan IS INDEED Kevin Smith
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Originally posted by: iRantanplan

Maybe it was the insomnia, but isn't it obvious that MagnoliaFan IS INDEED Kevin Smith

Nah! We all KNOW that MagnoliaFan is really Jason Mewes!!!

In fact, to improve ROTS, Mewes.. I mean MagnoliaFan.. will be bumping up Hayden's dialogue with some clever re-recording. Now when Vader rises off the table, instead of asking about Padme and yelling 'Noooooooooo' he'll say the following:
"Get off of me, I wanna see what's going on! What the f**k is this sh*t? Who the f**k are you, lady? Why the f**k did you hug my head? What is this sh*t, `The Piano?' Why ain't this broad talking? What the f**k does that mean? Has everyone gone f**king nuts? What the f**k happened to that guy's head?!?!?
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
You forgot to include 'snooch'


...to the mother-f**kin' naga-nooch! LOL
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R2 and C-3PO are right outside the door when Bail, Yoda and Obi-Wan decide the fate of the twins. Bail gets up, goes into the hall, and gives the droids to Captain Antilles. It's all part of the same scene. They don't exist in the same room, but its suddenly a major stretch. Not to mention, it's pretty unlikely that R2 wouldn't know Yoda who Yoda is or what he looks like, given that he was (miraculously) in the service of Anakin and the Jedi in Episode III (as opposed to being in the service of Amidala and the Naboo, where he was in Ep I and II, and even The Clone Wars).

Now that I think even more about it, given that Anakin hadn't seen Padme for about 9 months leading up to the movie, how'd he pick up R2 in the first place?

I gotta file this stuff at IMDB.

EDIT:
They DO share screen time ... at the birth of the twins. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail, R2 and C-3PO are ALL in that corridor when the twins are born. I rest my case.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I think the time span in the movie is about a few months and not just a few days
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I can see the whole continuity thing you're going for with Yoda, but I find it infinitely cooler that R2 is the only one who knows what's going on the whole time. That, and the scene in question where Bail tells Antillles to erase C-3PO's memory (with R2 laughing) is classic Star Wars humor. And what is the big deal with R2 fighting Yoda anyway? Regardless if he knew who he was not not, he was stealing Luke's property and R2 wasn't going to stand for it. That's how I see it anyway.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalManNow that I think even more about it, given that Anakin hadn't seen Padme for about 9 months leading up to the movie, how'd he pick up R2 in the first place?

It was shown in the Clone Wars. before Anakin went away for the first time, Padme gave him R2, apparently as a gift for being knighted. He saw her again between that moment and Ep III also, after he got the scar on his eye.
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Or we could just look at it like this:

The OT is one pretty complete work comprised of three films which- taken as a whole- work well as a story.

The PT is another set of three films which- viewed by themselves- kinda almost make sense and work as their own story.

Some of the names happen to be the same, some of the music happens to be the same and even some of the production staff happens to be the same. There the similarities end. Kinda like comic books- a Spider-Man comic written and illustrated in the 1960s looks and reads very differently from one created last year. Some people like the old ones, some like the new ones and some like both. Yet the creators don't feel a *huge* pressing desire to make continuity water-tight... as long as they sell comics! The two generations never really have to meet.

And as far as Star Wars is concerned to my mind they don't, but that's another story.

Make mine OT!
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Originally posted by: Knolly
Originally posted by: ADigitalManNow that I think even more about it, given that Anakin hadn't seen Padme for about 9 months leading up to the movie, how'd he pick up R2 in the first place?

It was shown in the Clone Wars. before Anakin went away for the first time, Padme gave him R2, apparently as a gift for being knighted. He saw her again between that moment and Ep III also, after he got the scar on his eye.


Thanks for clearing that up. I honestly didn't remember that in The Clone Wars. I last remembered Padme with both droids on the snowy planet (that wasn't Hoth).
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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@MagnoliaFan:
I didn't have the chance to see your ATOC edit yet, but there is somethink that bugs me:
Since in the official version Darth Tyrannus is Syfo Dias, who did order the clone army in your version?


Actually, I thought they did a really bad job clarifying who ordered the clones in II and III. It could be Sidious, it could be Dooku. Hell, I think in the books they say it was the real Syfo Dias and Mace Windu, or some screwy thing like that.
I really thought it would be made clear in III, who it was.
I had several relatives who had not seen 1 and 2, but loved 3. They went back and watched 1 and 2 afterwards and got all confused by all the unresolved plotlines they caused. I found it funny that they all think 3 works better if you've never seen 1 and 2.
Anyway, in the forthcoming Double Layer version of II (coming sooner than you may think), syfo dias no longer exists and there is a revelation to the characters onscreen as to who ordered the clones.

Oh, and when it comes to Obi-Wan blaming the Sith for killing Anakin in Ep IV...
Who better to blame if you want to motivate the kid to join your cause. He's certainly not going to tell Luke, "I cut your father's limbs off and left him to die a miserable death being burned alive and engulfed in lava."
Whether you know Anakin is Vader or not, Ben is still blatantly lying.

http://twitter.com/TheMagnoliaFan

http://www.youtube.com/user/magnoliafan78

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After seeing ROTS again, I believe it can effectively be done....ending Anakin's onscreen presense with his metal hand reaching out and clawing at the rocks, then cutting to the shot of the shuttle passing over the rocks. That ends Mustafar. You can even leave the Vader scene in (if you removed all previous Vader references) by starting his scene with the mask coming down (not showing Anakin's face) and then change Palps and Vaders lines to
"My New Apprentice, Lord Vader can you hear me. "
"Yes, my master"
"Rise!"
"Where is Obi-Wan Kenobi?"
"It seems, you killed him"
"Good"

All using lines from the film and subsequent films. Scene ends with Vader facing Palps still strapped to the table and Palps cackle can be heard right before the cut.

Or something like that.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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I had several relatives who had not seen 1 and 2, but loved 3. They went back and watched 1 and 2 afterwards and got all confused by all the unresolved plotlines they caused. I found it funny that they all think 3 works better if you've never seen 1 and 2.

Agreed. And its not just plot points; take the Anakin/Padme relationship, for example. Their scenes together are quite good in 3, but audiences moan and groan regardless due to the evoking of memories from 2. If you just see their marraige and interaction from 3, you can imagine the rest, but it's ruined by their botched "romance" in 2.

And, Hardcore Legend, the concept of your scene alteration is good, but it makes no sense story wise. This Vader character comes out of nowhere, asks about Obi-Wan, and Palpatine tells him he killed him? There are a variety of ways to do something along the lines of what you're talking about to improve the scene, however, depening on how you want to approach the Anakin/Vader thing. Asking about Obi-Wan is good, as it makes sense for Anakin to do so considering not too long ago he was the one who mutilated his body. If it could somehow be established they think he's dead/in hiding that would answer a plot hole or two. Then he could ask about Padme, and the scene could continue as nomal, with whatever changes are necessary to make the last shot more respectable. My suggestion would be slowing down the footage so that Vader is not swaying back and forth and combining the "NO" with a couple of other Vader grimaces from the OT, making for a tremendous, unintelligible noise.

For example:
P: Lord Vader? Can you hear me?
V: Yes, my master. Where is Obi-Wan?
P: Hiding. It is of no concern. Soon the Jedi will be wiped out, and we shall have have revenge. (Pieced together from various Palpatine dialogue)
V: And...Padme? Is she safe? (scene continues as normal...)
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I agree, but the point is to not include Padme, because to preserve the suprise of ESB, the two character must be believed to be seperate. Anakin is not Vader and Vader is not Anakin, until of course, it is revealed to us later on. The reason I have him say Obi-Wan Kenobi, is for two reasons. 1)There is source material and 2) because it is a formal reference, not "Where is Obi-Wan". Much like Maul's goal is to kill the Jedi, to reveal themselves and have their revenge, this new apprentice, Lord Vader is hear to wipe out the remaining Jedi. As Obi-Wan said, Vader helped the Emperor hunt down and kill the Jedi.

That dialogue is far from the finished idea, it's just a 'predraft' of what I would do to get you seeing what I am thinking. All previous Vader references are removed and replaced with 'Skywalker' or 'young 'Skywalker'.


"My New Apprentice, Lord Vader can you hear me. "
"Yes, my master. Where is Obi-Wan Kenobi?"
"You have done well, Lord Vader."
"I can sense his presence"
"Patience. In time he will seek you out.."
"What is thy bidding, my Master?"
"Rise!"

Then have Vader bust off of the table, but instead of showing him reaching up and screaming as the final shot, just cut to Palps face smiling and laughing.

There, is that better? All of that dialogue is in the following films.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
R2 and C-3PO are right outside the door when Bail, Yoda and Obi-Wan decide the fate of the twins. Bail gets up, goes into the hall, and gives the droids to Captain Antilles. It's all part of the same scene. They don't exist in the same room, but its suddenly a major stretch. Not to mention, it's pretty unlikely that R2 wouldn't know Yoda who Yoda is or what he looks like, given that he was (miraculously) in the service of Anakin and the Jedi in Episode III (as opposed to being in the service of Amidala and the Naboo, where he was in Ep I and II, and even The Clone Wars).

Now that I think even more about it, given that Anakin hadn't seen Padme for about 9 months leading up to the movie, how'd he pick up R2 in the first place?

I gotta file this stuff at IMDB.

EDIT:
They DO share screen time ... at the birth of the twins. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail, R2 and C-3PO are ALL in that corridor when the twins are born. I rest my case.


I think you have a point here... How come R2 didn't recognize Yoda on ESB?? Why were those two figthing for a flashlight?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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"The OT is one pretty complete work comprised of three films which- taken as a whole- work well as a story.

The PT is another set of three films which- viewed by themselves- kinda almost make sense and work as their own story."

And ANH stands on its own.

"Actually, I thought they did a really bad job clarifying who ordered the clones in II and III. It could be Sidious, it could be Dooku. Hell, I think in the books they say it was the real Syfo Dias"

Yes, it would have made more sense for Dooku to have killed Sifo, and then order the clones under his guise. As the book goes, Sifo orders the clones himself, Dooku finds out, and then kills him.

Why on Earth Sifo would do this, and without the Council's knowledge, and where did he get his money? Stupid.

""Where is Obi-Wan Kenobi?"
"It seems, you killed him"
"Good""

I don't understand the point of these lines. Vader wasn't surprised that Ben was alive in ANH. Furthermore, he thought Ben was dead and gone for good in ESB. "Obi-wan can no longer help him."

Anakin just can't get it right in the films.

"They DO share screen time ... at the birth of the twins. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail, R2 and C-3PO are ALL in that corridor when the twins are born. I rest my case."

They may share screen time, but I guarantee you that Yoda is not at all concerned with a common-looking atromech droid at that point in time.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Yes, it would have made more sense for Dooku to have killed Sifo, and then order the clones under his guise. As the book goes, Sifo orders the clones himself, Dooku finds out, and then kills him.
Why on Earth Sifo would do this, and without the Council's knowledge, and where did he get his money? Stupid.


In the new version of CW, I can say that it is clear that Dooku did not order the Clones, seeing as he is not in league with Sidious. I went back and read the script for Attack of the Clones and an easy clarification of who ordered the clones lept out at me, so I restored a variation of that script element to the film and eliminated the distraction that is Syfo altogether.
Its all really quite simple... It took me less than 5 minutes to recut the varying parts needed and get it sounding right.

http://twitter.com/TheMagnoliaFan

http://www.youtube.com/user/magnoliafan78

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"In the new version of CW, I can say that it is clear that Dooku did not order the Clones, seeing as he is not in league with Sidious."

I know, but I'm just talking about the films and the novelization. I'm trying not to confuse them with your version this time.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

"Actually, I thought they did a really bad job clarifying who ordered the clones in II and III. It could be Sidious, it could be Dooku. Hell, I think in the books they say it was the real Syfo Dias"

Yes, it would have made more sense for Dooku to have killed Sifo, and then order the clones under his guise. As the book goes, Sifo orders the clones himself, Dooku finds out, and then kills him.

Why on Earth Sifo would do this, and without the Council's knowledge, and where did he get his money? Stupid.


Perhaps he was under the influence/orders of palpatine as well.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"In the new version of CW, I can say that it is clear that Dooku did not order the Clones, seeing as he is not in league with Sidious."
I know, but I'm just talking about the films and the novelization. I'm trying not to confuse them with your version this time.


I know, I was just dropping hints as to how it will be different.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/magnoliafan78

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Well, I've not read the EpIII novel yet, but I've been told Sifo did so on his own prerogative.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: Knolly
It was shown in the Clone Wars. before Anakin went away for the first time, Padme gave him R2, apparently as a gift for being knighted. He saw her again between that moment and Ep III also, after he got the scar on his eye.


Thanks for clearing that up. I honestly didn't remember that in The Clone Wars. I last remembered Padme with both droids on the snowy planet (that wasn't Hoth).

The planet was Illum, I think. The R2 exchange happens at the end of Chapter 21, I think, whereas Padme and the droids on the snowy planet happens within the first 20 episodes.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
""Where is Obi-Wan Kenobi?"
"It seems, you killed him"
"Good""

I don't understand the point of these lines. Vader wasn't surprised that Ben was alive in ANH. Furthermore, he thought Ben was dead and gone for good in ESB. "Obi-wan can no longer help him."


Well, for believability sake. If Vader didn't believe Obi-Wan was dead, wouldn't it be a priority to kill the only Jedi left alive who had and possibly could defeat you in the future?

But the second group of lines I did, I like much better.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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"wouldn't it be a priority to kill the only Jedi left alive who had and possibly could defeat you in the future?"

Killing the Jedi was already a priority for other reasons: They were powerful in their own right (hence the need for millions of troops), and to get revenge for almost wiping out the Sith. They would always be a threat, regardless of whether Anakin had children.

"Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions" - ANH novelization

The fact that Obi-wan and Yoda are still alive by the OT doesn't mean the Empire stopped looking for them.

"Kenobi resumed his pacing. "Vader used the training I gave him and the force within him for evil, to help the later corrupt Emperors. With the Jedi knights disbanded, disorganized, or dead, there were few to oppose Vader. Today they are all but extinct." - ANH novelization


Now, this isn't to say I don't understand your point, I just don't think the original scenario is so bad.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

"Actually, I thought they did a really bad job clarifying who ordered the clones in II and III. It could be Sidious, it could be Dooku. Hell, I think in the books they say it was the real Syfo Dias"

Yes, it would have made more sense for Dooku to have killed Sifo, and then order the clones under his guise. As the book goes, Sifo orders the clones himself, Dooku finds out, and then kills him.

Why on Earth Sifo would do this, and without the Council's knowledge, and where did he get his money? Stupid.


Perhaps he was under the influence.



That's why I make it a rule never to make big purchases will in such a state.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......