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Does Tarkin know that the Emperor is a Sithlord? — Page 2

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"Why would Vader, with all his abilities, play second fiddle to some ordinary man? "

Like he did with Tarkin?

As to the nature of Palpatine, I recall, either in the Annotated Screenplays or the commentary from the LDs, that there was talk of Palpatine having a hidious face, or even no face at all - just a representation of the ultimate evil. I'll have to see if I can find it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Something that should have been done for ep3 to fix the plot error in A New Hope.

The Emperor gave Tarkin to be the head of the officers to be in charge of things and such.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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The original emperor was to be a nixonian, wizard of oz type character behind the curtain. A puppetmaster pulling the strings but never really seen. There are drafts of the screenplay though when Cos Dashit is said to have a wicked mustache. He seems to be consciously modeled on hitler. But lucas has also said nixon. And the empire was partially based on the united states, because of vietnam. Although mostly it was based on a tolitarian government of oppresion. lucas said he based Chancellor Valorum on Bill Clinton. And now he has so much as said that in revenge of the sith the emperor sidious is a political parralel for George W. Bush, and how Like Bush sidious used the seperatists and the war to get more power and slowly take away peoples freedom, Just like 9/11 was the excuse for the patriot act and the war in iraq. It was all done out of security. He (Lucas again) praised Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, and said we have to question authority of government, because according to him in iraq we have another vietnam. He wrote the original screenplay for Apocalypse Now and THX 1138, and they were saying the same things big brother is out to get us all.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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you got some good points there but when did lucas say all of this.
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Shimraa you will go to the databank in starwars.com, the same website that gave me info.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Why would Vader, with all his abilities, play second fiddle to some ordinary man? "

Like he did with Tarkin?



But who's to say Vader wouldn't have taken out Tarkin if not for the Emperor's fondness for Tarkin? Seems to me that there is animosity between Tarkin and Vader, and that Tarkin is able to say the things he does because he knows the Emperor has his back.
40,000 million notches away
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
Shimraa you will go to the databank in starwars.com, the same website that gave me info.


k thanks, but htat data bank is all EU and i though the films and the EU were not suppose to mesh.
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
No LOL, i mean who was the original character of the emperor, was he a creature, a beast, a man etc?

I checked the databank of starwars.com for an answer and here what i found.......


"Early drafts scripts of A New Hope identified the Emperor as "Cos Dashit",


Cos Dashit....You've got to be kidding??
Who the fuck came up with that name??

Why's the Emperor so bad?? Cos he's da shit man!!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Hot Rod, he was called that, because that's what he did. (I'll wait until you get it. )

"But who's to say Vader wouldn't have taken out Tarkin?"

Like he did with Palpatine? You know, the guy who was more powerful to begin with? Sorry, but your logic is becoming circular. Vader followed Tarkin's orders, and reported to him several times throughout ANH. You are more than welcome to read more into the all you want, but Vader is clearly under the command of a mere human.

"Tarkin is able to say the things he does because he knows the Emperor has his back."
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In fact, [Vader] is one of the Dark Lords who is working for the Emperor, and he has to do the Emperor's bidding. You will see at some point in the future that the Jedi have the same relationship to the Republic, they're likepublic servants, they're like marshals or policemen. They basically do what they're told to do. They're not independent agents who can do whatever they want. In the case of the Jedi, they work for the Republic, and in the case of the Sith Lords, they work for the Empire. So I obviously didn't want to make Vader too weak, but I didn't want to make him so you thought he was in charge of everything. That's why I had Tarkin in the first film, although he was more of a bureaucrat. - Annotated Screenplays

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: HotRod
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
No LOL, i mean who was the original character of the emperor, was he a creature, a beast, a man etc?

I checked the databank of starwars.com for an answer and here what i found.......


"Early drafts scripts of A New Hope identified the Emperor as "Cos Dashit",


Cos Dashit....You've got to be kidding??
Who the fuck came up with that name??

Why's the Emperor so bad?? Cos he's da shit man!!


no its cause he caused the shit. lol
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Like he did with Palpatine? You know, the guy who was more powerful to begin with? Sorry, but your logic is becoming circular. Vader followed Tarkin's orders, and reported to him several times throughout ANH. You are more than welcome to read more into the all you want, but Vader is clearly under the command of a mere human.


You haven't proved that Vader doesn't see Tarkin as any more than a subordintate. So, acording to your logic, if in between Ep III and the end of ANH, (hypothetically) the Emperor were to die of a heart attack, you're thinking is that Tarkin would become Emperor and Vader would still sit there all the while thinking: yes I could force choke this dude, and yes I an the 'chosen one, but I better not since Palps liked him? Correct?
40,000 million notches away
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Originally posted by: Windexed
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Like he did with Palpatine? You know, the guy who was more powerful to begin with? Sorry, but your logic is becoming circular. Vader followed Tarkin's orders, and reported to him several times throughout ANH. You are more than welcome to read more into the all you want, but Vader is clearly under the command of a mere human.


You haven't proved that Vader doesn't see Tarkin as any more than a subordintate. So, acording to your logic, if in between Ep III and the end of ANH, (hypothetically) the Emperor were to die of a heart attack, you're thinking is that Tarkin would become Emperor and Vader would still sit there all the while thinking: yes I could force choke this dude, and yes I an the 'chosen one, but I better not since Palps liked him? Correct?


Hmn, that's an interesting question. If the Emperor died, who would take over? I don't think Tarkin would, he didn't have the right "profile" for it, he's more of a manager and commander than a ruler or an emperor... I think Vader would be the Emperor...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite

Hmn, that's an interesting question. If the Emperor died, who would take over? I don't think Tarkin would, he didn't have the right "profile" for it, he's more of a manager and commander than a ruler or an emperor... I think Vader would be the Emperor...


Well prior to the PT, I would have said that we as viewers/readers/etc just didn't have enough information regarding the political system in SW to know who would take over had the Emperor died. It just wasn't a part of the story that needed to be told.

(for that matter though, I've never heard a discussion anywhere else about who would take over for such-and-such bad guy in this-or-that film... its kinda funny if you think about it. "So like in Krull, IF the evil king died, what system of checks and balances are in place to ensure that the evil government continues to to run evilly?")

Then with the PT one could assume that indeed Vader would have been groomed to take over in the untimely event that Palps, say, tripped and fell down a seemingly endless chasm inside a space station of unrivaled power. ("Whoops- sorry boss!")

So where does Tarkin fit in to the government structure? Considering both trilogies I'd think its like this: Vader/Tarkin act like the Senate/Jedi Council. Vader as more of a 'outside-of-government' strong-arm enforcer, someone who has the ability to commandeer resources at his whim or whenever the Emp tells him to get something done, few questions asked. Tarkin on the other hand is all business, has to follow the rules (eeeevvviiiilllll though they may be) and is there to maintain true military chain of command. In that regard they are both 'managers' but of different 'departments'.
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"You haven't proved that Vader doesn't see Tarkin as any more than a subordintate."

The funny part is, I don't have to. My position is based on facts. Your position is based on your gut feeling and supposition. You are the one who needs to prove your stance, not I.

"(hypothetically) the Emperor were to die of a heart attack, you're thinking is that Tarkin would become Emperor and Vader would still sit there all the while thinking: yes I could force choke this dude, and yes I an the 'chosen one, but I better not since Palps liked him? Correct?"

"What-ifs" don't do the job. This is mere reasoning, not proof. Lucas wasn't concerned about such "Chain of Command" questions when he wrote the film. He put Tarkin in for a very specific reason - to temper Vader's character. Your question has nothing to do with the scope of the films. Hell, we don't even know if Tarkin is the only person between Palps and Vader. Fact is, neither of us know the answer to this question, and never will, so it's a waste of time trying to answer it.

Furthermore, I never said Vader wouldn't take out Tarkin. I simply brought up that quote because you believed the only reason Vader didn't take out Tarkin was because Palps was "protecting" him. Seems to me Vader has some respect for the guy - you know, the one who calls him "friend"? As far as the first novel goes, Vader worked under two men less powerful than he, The Emperor and Tarkin - something that apparently does not make sense to you.

Lucas has said Tarkin was above Vader. You don't like it? Tough. Go yell at Lucas about it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"You haven't proved that Vader doesn't see Tarkin as any more than a subordintate."

"(hypothetically) the Emperor were to die of a heart attack, you're thinking is that Tarkin would become Emperor and Vader would still sit there all the while thinking: yes I could force choke this dude, and yes I an the 'chosen one, but I better not since Palps liked him? Correct?"

"What-ifs" don't do the job. This is mere reasoning, not proof. Lucas wasn't concerned about such "Chain of Command" questions when he wrote the film. He put Tarkin in for a very specific reason - to temper Vader's character. Your question has nothing to do with the scope of the films. Hell, we don't even know if Tarkin is the only person between Palps and Vader. Fact is, neither of us know the answer to this question, and never will, so it's a waste of time trying to answer it.



And what if Vader was dead who then would rule the Empire.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Palps?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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No LOL, i mean all 2 of em were dead (vader & palps).
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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The New Republic
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
No LOL, i mean all 2 of em were dead (vader & palps).


Jerry Lewis caracter (who got cut out from the movies) would be the Emperor in such a bizarre ocasion.

Jokes aside, if they both died the Empire would be over. I mean, remember ROTJ??
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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" No LOL, i mean all 2 of em were dead (vader & palps)."

The regional governers would then take over, as was mentioned in ANH (and subsequently used in the EU.)

"Jokes aside, if they both died the Empire would be over. I mean, remember ROTJ??"

Interestingly enough, the novelization makes it clear that the Empire was under the control of Palp's Force abilities, which would explain its machine-like efficiency. After Palps is killed, the armies, which were too dependant on this control, fall into disarray, and are able to be overcome by the Republic forces. (A very similar concept was used for the droid armies in TPM.)

While the movie doesn't touch on this, you may notice that the Republic doesn't start kicking butt until after Palps is killed.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Was "Sith" mentioned in the OT?
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Not in the films, but it is mentioned in the novelizations.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>