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Info: Fixing the ESB TR47 4 second black screen

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Well, I finally fixed this DVD to my satisfaction and it can all be done with freeware or free-trial software. Here is how I did it in case anyone else wants to fix their own discs rather than trying to acquire Rowman’s fixed version.

Start by joining the 5 VOB files. I used “File Merger” (a tiny 84 KB general purpose freeware utility) to do this. I believe that it can also be done through the command line (CMD.exe). If you have DVD-lab you can drag and drop the first VOB into the assets box and it will offer to join the VOBs for you as well.

Then I used a program called “VideoReDo” (free trial, fully functional for the trial period with registration) which I found by clicking a link at the bottom of this forum. It has a big, non-resizable, fluffy GUI but it does its job well, i.e. deleting sections of video/audio on any frame in an MPG/VOB file and saving without having to reencode. Just select the first black frame in the 4 second black screen as the start point of the selection, and the first frame that shows Leia welding as the end point of the selection and then press your delete key on the keyboard. Anyone familiar with Vdub will have no trouble using this program.

I saved the file as an MPG and then used MPEG-VCR V3.14’s “GOP Fixer” on the file (steps 1 and 2). I don’t know if this was necessary or not but it did find and fix a lot of GOP time code errors which I suspect was a result of the cutting out of the black screen earlier.

Then you can open the file again in VideoReDo and save as elementary streams (WAV and MPV), or any other method you care to use to demux.

Open the WAV file in an audio editor. I used GoldWave which is shareware. The same thing can be done with Audacity (open source freeware) or if you have Nero Ultra, that comes with a pretty good wave editor as part of the suite. Move your start selection to about 50m 31s or so (press play and listen for the sound of Leia welding to get the exact point) and your end selection a second or two after that and zoom in. Keep zooming in until you can clearly see a .058 second long “flatline” at the “C3PO-to-Leia welding scene” transition. Delete that gap of silence that shouldn’t be there and then save your changes.

Load the MPV and the WAV into Muxman (free for the basic version) and load this chapter list:

003447
014946
027067
032677
040223
045343
056331
065127
074462
080757
093726
108663
118691
132823
139846
147538
157127
167898
178759
194683
206169
212609
216519

And select the save location and click start and that is all there is to it. The results are perfect and there is no quality loss because nothing gets re-encoded. The black is completely gone and because of the frame-accurate editing of VideoReDo, you don’t lose any frames that are supposed to be there. The chapter list is accurate relative to the unaltered TR47 DVD. It is 4 seconds off for the chapters that fall past the edit once you remove the black screen. This could be adjusted in the list itself if anyone wanted to*.

*<span class=“Italics”>Edited to replace the chapter list that was 4 seconds off after the cut, with an adjusted chapter list.</span>

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The ROW47 set replaces this older "Cowclops V.1" transfer - (aka TR47 - I really named this set incorrectly!) and Rowman added menus to the set that match the 4th BONUS disc AND the 3 Extras DVD's that he did for the "Cowclops V.1" set!

SO, The Rowman set has 7 DVD's that all have matching menus and the 4 sec fix also (email me for details on getting the set)

- OR you can also use TMPGENc DVD Author (trial also I think) to just cut that small blank spot the just re-output - it ONLY takes about 30 minutes (including ripping )

RiK

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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I didn't want any menus. If I'd gotten the Rowman set, I would have run it through DVD-Shrink to get rid of the menu's anyway.

I thought about doing it the way Rowman did with TMPGENc DVD Author (he did use TMPGENc DVD Author didn't he?) but MeBeJedi said in another thread that his version still left 1 black frame or something to that effect:
I thought there was a link to Rowman's technique, but it was still off by one black frame. I'm guessing that's the best it's going to get. - MeBeJedi


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I'd really just hold off for the XO transfers - just check out these screen captures from the XO transfer

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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"Start by joining the 5 VOB files. I used "File Merger" (a tiny 84 KB general purpose freeware utility) to do this"

To all others reading this, keep in mind that you will have to be running NTFS in Windows 2000 or XP. Windows 95/98 can't hang with file sizes this large.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Start by joining the 5 VOB files. I used "File Merger" (a tiny 84 KB general purpose freeware utility) to do this"

To all others reading this, keep in mind that you will have to be running NTFS in Windows 2000 or XP. Windows 95/98 can't hang with file sizes this large.

That's true and I'd forgotten all about that. I haven't run FAT32 in years. 2 GB is the limit for a single file in FAT32 I believe.

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Originally posted by: Rikter
I'd really just hold off for the XO transfers - just check out these screen captures from the XO transfer

Yeah, I have seen those and they are amazing. I compared the screenshot of Vader/Shaw on the X0 site with a shot of the same frame on the 2004 DVD and while the DVD image edged it out by a bit, it wasn't by much; plus the colors were better on the X0 shot than on the DVD. The improvement of the X0 compared to the TR47 was greater than the improvement of the DVD compared to the X0.

But I grew up watching vintage 80's rental pan & scan VHS tapes and TR47 is certainly an improvement over those. Plus, X0 is still a ways off, "pre-production" stage as Laserman put it in the X0 thread.

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Originally posted by: Rikter
The ROW47 set replaces this older "Cowclops V.1" transfer - (aka TR47 - I really named this set incorrectly!) and Rowman added menus to the set that match the 4th BONUS disc AND the 3 Extras DVD's that he did for the "Cowclops V.1" set!

SO, The Rowman set has 7 DVD's that all have matching menus and the 4 sec fix also (email me for details on getting the set)

- OR you can also use TMPGENc DVD Author (trial also I think) to just cut that small blank spot the just re-output - it ONLY takes about 30 minutes (including ripping )

RiK


Any chance you'll ever release torrents of these ? (hint, hint).
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not with the new Cowclops transfer coming out.... Why post old stuff when we can have the new one

BUT if you want the Row47 7 disc drop me a line at my email listed in my sig and we can work out a trade or something

RiK

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Originally posted by: MaximRecoil
I didn't want any menus. If I'd gotten the Rowman set, I would have run it through DVD-Shrink to get rid of the menu's anyway.

I thought about doing it the way Rowman did with TMPGENc DVD Author (he did use TMPGENc DVD Author didn't he?) but MeBeJedi said in another thread that his version still left 1 black frame or something to that effect:
I thought there was a link to Rowman's technique, but it was still off by one black frame. I'm guessing that's the best it's going to get. - MeBeJedi


Actually, I did the blank frames fix first in TMPGENc DVD Author (clean edit, no black frames left over) with no menu. I liked the results so much that I ran the fixed version again through TMPGENc DVD Author in order to add a simple frame capture title screen. Rikter's right. It only took about 30 minutes and was a lot less complicated. One could even use TMPGENc DVD Author with my fixed title screened version to remove the menu screen without re-encoding in about the same time.
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That sounds good. I'll have to get ahold of that program and try it out. In what manner can you load the DVD into it? Do you have to join the VOB's first? Also, did you check the audio at the edit point? When I made the edit in the joined VOB's the audio after the edit seemed slightly out of sync but I wasn't positive, because it was right on the verge of what is noticeable. The original unaltered TR47 is also right on the edge of what is acceptable for audio sync in parts and I had to watch and compare scenes over and over to finally decide that yes, the edited version was ever so slightly more out of sync than the original TR47. When I looked at the audio stream in GoldWave I could see that it was .058 seconds more out of sync than the original TR47 version to be precise (.058 second "flatline" right at the edit point); which wouldn't even normally be noticeable, except for the fact that the original ESB TR47 is already so close to being out of sync to begin with (but still in the acceptable range).
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Thanks for the tip on using TMPGEnc DVD Author to get rid of the black frames, I didn't realize it was that easy. Worked like a charm and now no black frames before the welding scene. Nice. See the things you learn about software you've had forever but just weren't using to its full potential.
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Originally posted by: MaximRecoil
That sounds good. I'll have to get ahold of that program and try it out. In what manner can you load the DVD into it? Do you have to join the VOB's first? Also, did you check the audio at the edit point?...


TMPGEnc DVD Author has a feature to "add DVD video." I just loaded the original TR47 version into it from the disc and it transferred the entire contents to the hard drive as an mpg2 file and also kept the chapter points. I have never noticed any audio sync issues with the original or the "re-edit" and I have watched them quite a few times.
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Originally posted by: RowMan
Originally posted by: MaximRecoil
That sounds good. I'll have to get ahold of that program and try it out. In what manner can you load the DVD into it? Do you have to join the VOB's first? Also, did you check the audio at the edit point?...


TMPGEnc DVD Author has a feature to "add DVD video." I just loaded the original TR47 version into it from the disc and it transferred the entire contents to the hard drive as an mpg2 file and also kept the chapter points. I have never noticed any audio sync issues with the original or the "re-edit" and I have watched them quite a few times.
I will definitely give it a try. I have never used TMPGEnc DVD Author but it sounds like a really nice program.
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I tried this with TMPGenc DVD Author 1.6.26.73. The most accurate I can get with it still leaves one black frame there. It only lets you set start or stop points on I-frames, and while the proper place to set the start point (the first black frame) happens to be an I-frame, the place where you need to set the end point of the cut is not an I-frame and it won't let you set the edit point there.

Now, if this program deletes everything in the selection up to, and including the end point frame, then you would have to set the end point of the cut at frame number 91066 (00:50:38;16) for it to be an accurate edit resulting in no black frames during that scene transition and no lost frames that are supposed to be there. The closest I-frame where you are actually allowed to set the end frame of the cut is one frame back at 91065 (00:50:38;15). This leaves one black frame between the scene transition.

The way I did the edit, as described in my initial post, used an editor that could cut on any frame, not just I-frames, which resulted in a perfect edit with no black frames in the scene transition.

Now, MeBeJedi says that the Rowman edit is off by one black frame. This is consistent with what I got from trying it with TMPGenc DVD Author. Rowman claims that his edit left behind no black frames. What am I missing here?
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Now that I think back on it, I probably did lose a few frames because of having to edit on the I-frames. But, to me anyway, the loss was negligible.
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Soon we'll need a sticky index thread to list all the other threads covering this topic:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=2495
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=2326
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1307


Seriously though, the third link might help to jog RowMan's memory (scroll down to October 03)

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Yep. Remembering more clearly now. I guess 10 frames was the loss to have no gap. But like I said in '03, there was no music or dialog lost in that 1/3 of a second so I didn't mind.
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Originally posted by: Darth Mallwalker
Soon we'll need a sticky index thread to list all the other threads covering this topic:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=2495
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=2326
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1307


Seriously though, the third link might help to jog RowMan's memory (scroll down to October 03)
This is interesting; from that third link:
Yeah, I got it down to 1 frame, it's still there, BUT is only as bad as a layer change now, which I can live with. I extracted the whole thing as an MPEG2, then edited it in TMPEGDVD. As it has been noted, unfortunetly you WILL NOT be able to get any closer than 1 frame unless you have access to the original, uncompressed footage, OR go back and recapture the whole movie from LD again. You can cut out exactly on the shot change, but cutting back in gives you the last frame of the gap. Whoever did the encoding (TR47 admits it's not his work, he's just selling them), ended up with that last black frame being an I or P or B frame (I can never remember which is which ), so for the file to work as an MPEG2, it HAS to remain. On the whole, I'd definetly say it was worth the little time it took to fix.

Judging from that (I haven't read all the threads yet), does this mean I am the first one here to come up with a perfect edit of the original ESB TR47 disc? What with all the new stuff out there and "X0" on the horizon, I guess I am a dollar short and a day late though, lol.

Technically he is right about what he says there, but he is not taking into account software that can work around the problem by combining a small amount of re-encoding with copying. If you watch the dialog box as VideoReDo is saving the file, it is saving it in two parts, part 1 = the beginning of the movie up until the point that you started the cut and part 2 = from the point that the cut ended through to the end of the movie. Anyway, as you watch, it says "fast frame copy part 1" or something like that and then for like a second, it changes its dialog to say "encoding" and then it goes to saying "fast frame copy part 2" (it only takes about 10 minutes to save the entire 4.36 GB file on my machine). Apparently it has to re-encode right at the point that it is joining "part 1" and "part 2" together, probably to put an I-frame in the right location. This bit of a workaround that is built into the program allows you to make a cut on any frame and still leave the vast majority of the video stream untouched when you save it. It seems like a fairly unique procedure to me, as everything else seems to mandate that you make edits only on I-frames or else it wants to re-encode the entire thing. With this, only a frame or two gets re-encoded (just a guess judging from the very short time that the dialog says "encoding") and the rest is a bit-for-bit copy.

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I used TMPGenc to get rid of the four seconds, but when I go to output the file, it says that it's too large for a DVD, and that the combined bitrate is over the maximum 9800~kbps. Anyone know why?
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Originally posted by: sybeman
I used TMPGenc to get rid of the four seconds, but when I go to output the file, it says that it's too large for a DVD, and that the combined bitrate is over the maximum 9800~kbps. Anyone know why?
It is not saying that it is too large, it is saying that the combined bitrate is higher than what is specified by DVD standards (the file size itself could only be a few megs and it would still give you that warning if the bitrate is too high). That is because of the Linear PCM audio, that is 1411 kbps. DVD's typically use AC3 audio with 448 kbps max. Either way, it doesn't matter; just ignore the warning. Most DVD players will have no problems with it (the TR47 set wouldn't be very popular if every DVD player out there was choking on its above standard bitrate). Also, I have run the TR47 ESB file set through several DVD authoring programs and TMPGenc DVD Author is the only one that mentions anything about the bitrate.

Keep in mind; if you are making this edit with DVD Author, you will either end up with a remaining black frame or two, or lose about 13 frames of Leia's welding scene.

Edit: Actually, I remember that TMPG does say that the file set is too large in some circumstances, notably when you load it as a DVD video. Again, ignore that, because it doesn't know what it is talking about. When it finishes outputting, it will be the same size (minus a meg or two because of the cut out black frames) as when you started. DVD Author is better at predicting the file size when you load the video and audio streams seperately, than when you load already muxed files like a "DVD video"; for some strange reason.
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Thanks for the help. I burned it, and it worked just fine, which made me wonder what the fuss was about. I understand now.