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STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 44

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Snaketibe said:

Continuity errors bug the hell out of me as they smack of, at the very least poor planning, and at worst, poor film-making…

This is somewhat callous. Movies are not easy to make. Continuity errors are just tiny mistakes that happen here and there (and are pretty much inevitable). They have nothing to do with the quality of the film or the filmmaking at hand. There are far more important things that go into that.

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As someone who has both directed and edited professionally, I will say those kinds of errors on bigger shoots are both easy to make and a pain to deal with in post. It’s not “poor filmmaking” it’s just an simple mistake.

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Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

“Always in motion is the future” 🌌

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Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

IMHO that looks incredibly promising. I never realized how incredibly off putting it was to see Mark Hamill’s face flipped like that. As someone else said, it really bothered me on a gut-level and I didn’t realize why.

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nhoj3 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

IMHO that looks incredibly promising. I never realized how incredibly off putting it was to see Mark Hamill’s face flipped like that. As someone else said, it really bothered me on a gut-level and I didn’t realize why.

Yes, Mark’s off-putting asymmetrical mirrored face is the only reason I’d want them flipped. Then there’s the direction of Leia’s chain not really matching between shots, and the 180 degree rule stuff that was mentioned before. It’s a trade-off, I guess.

“Always in motion is the future” 🌌

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 (Edited)

Depheros said:

nhoj3 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

IMHO that looks incredibly promising. I never realized how incredibly off putting it was to see Mark Hamill’s face flipped like that. As someone else said, it really bothered me on a gut-level and I didn’t realize why.

Yes, Mark’s off-putting asymmetrical mirrored face is the only reason I’d want them flipped. Then there’s the direction of Leia’s chain not really matching between shots, and the 180 degree rule stuff that was mentioned before. It’s a trade-off, I guess.

I’m not in the profession of filmmaking, but I did watch an introduction video on the 180 degree rule so that I could better discuss it here. The video left off with this insight on breaking the 180 rule: “It’s not a hard and fast rule. Rule of thumb: As long as it’s not distracting or confuses your audience, you’re good to go.”

I can’t speak for everyone, but I was neither confused nor distracted in that proof of concept.

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You could show me the flipped elements in an individual shot and I still wouldn’t notice it if I watched the film itself as it went by. But I definitely would notice something going in the wrong direction. I couldn’t tell you a single flipped shot in tpm and even these ones of ROTJ that have been pointed out won’t bother me next time I watch it. Not at all saying fixing the flipped elements is pointless just defending them being flipped in the first place.

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Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

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^ yep does not seem to be any plausible reason for flipping the shots at all apart from for the sake of it.

Well done Depheros!

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Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

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Snaketibe said:

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

so, you find those who will watch the movie as edited and released to be the pedants, and those who want to ‘unflip’ all shots because it is driving them crazy to not be the pedants?

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 (Edited)

And I see that my last reply arrived moments after Ady’s post (which had not yet posted when I started composing my reply), and contradicts his viewpoint totally!.. Oh well, each to their own, and it is quite obviously his edit to do with as he sees fit. Personally I hope those shots get flipped back, but if they aren’t I’m not going to cry about it. I’m grateful for any and everything Ady gives us, and I’ve lived with these flips for this long, I’m sure I can live with them a little longer if that’s his decision 😃

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dahmage said:

Snaketibe said:

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

so, you find those who will watch the movie as edited and released to be the pedants, and those who want to ‘unflip’ all shots because it is driving them crazy to not be the pedants?

Well since that’s not what I said, no I don’t.

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 (Edited)

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I believe that because we are so familiar with these scenes we feel like we can follow it fine with shots flipped back, but that’s like being able to walk along a well-known trail without having to watch every step we make because we’ve walked it so often.

If the movie were released with those shots unflipped, it would have hurt more than helped upon a first viewing.

A great example of showing how important the 180 degree rule is, is to watch the “film” that plays at the end of Super 8, the one made by the kid characters. There are intentional breaks of the 180 rule to make it feel like a true amateur film made by kids.

“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”

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Didn’t expect adywan to get compared to Donald Trump today, crazy world we live in.

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Snaketibe said:

dahmage said:

Snaketibe said:

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

so, you find those who will watch the movie as edited and released to be the pedants, and those who want to ‘unflip’ all shots because it is driving them crazy to not be the pedants?

Well since that’s not what I said, no I don’t.

Seemed pretty spot on to me.

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adywan said:

Flipping those shots doesn’t work because the skiff ends up on the opposite side of the barge at the end, which is why they ended up flipping them in the first place

Not being bad at all, but I did notice that and I felt that the Barge had circled around while we cut away to the interior of the barge and it was not a problem at all because enough time passes from the exterior to interior and back to the exterior again allowing for the change of / new position. you can hear the engines also within the interior shots slowing too…

But I did not feel it was an issue. But if you think it’s an issue no worries don’t mind it either way…

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 (Edited)

Snaketibe said:
Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t.

I have a triple-digit IQ and I don’t like the unflipped version which is not consistent in its permanent change of side of the “narrative” movement. If the little inconsistencies of them being flipped can be fixed I say “why not”, but unflipping them is incredibly jarring. Glad Ady feels the same.

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Snaketibe said:

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

Please keep politics out of this discussion. Thank you.

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SilverWook said:

Snaketibe said:

Valheru_84 said:

Depheros said:

Just as a test, here’s the beginning of the sail barge sequence with flipped shots put back:
https://vimeo.com/238829311
It’s more jarring than the original, without a doubt. Although, I do like that Mark Hamill’s face is flipped back to normal now. I think that’s the main giveaway.

Can’t say I found any issue with those shots flipped back, I followed along fine with where the barge was heading and the other ships location to it.

.Val

I quite agree. The viewer can follow the action just fine, and quite frankly I’m seriously struggling to see why it was flipped in the first place, as IMHO this version is infinitely superior. The only possible quibble from pedants I can see is that when they finally arrive at the Sarlacc the skiffs are now on the barge’s left side instead of the right, but since they’re all flying vehicles with vast space around them on all sides, and we don’t witness the entire trip, surely it’s not beyond the wit of the viewer to assume the skiff moved to the other side at some point before the journey’s end? Donald Trump might struggle to understand it, but regular humans with at least double-digit IQs won’t. I didn’t watch that clip and think, ‘My God! The skiff’s teleported!’

Please keep politics out of this discussion. Thank you.

My apologies, will do.

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Ronster said:

adywan said:

Flipping those shots doesn’t work because the skiff ends up on the opposite side of the barge at the end, which is why they ended up flipping them in the first place

Not being bad at all, but I did notice that and I felt that the Barge had circled around while we cut away to the interior of the barge and it was not a problem at all because enough time passes from the exterior to interior and back to the exterior again allowing for the change of / new position. you can hear the engines also within the interior shots slowing too…

But I did not feel it was an issue. But if you think it’s an issue no worries don’t mind it either way…

I agree… And apparently my brain can subconsciously fill in the gap of how one floating ship can circle another off-screen a lot easier than in can figure out why a flipped Mark Hamill’s face looks so absolutely unnatural on-screen.