Originally posted by: Karyudo

Originally posted by: rnranimal
[the German set] should provide the ultimate transfer, if done properly.

You'll have to define 'properly'. I don't think anyone's gotten further than I have (even though I haven't released jack), and even I am not convinced PAL will be better. It is just incredibly difficult to find a PAL player that will rival the best NTSC-only players. No such animal seems to exist, in fact. I haven't given up (I have a line on a prototype player that may just do the trick), but once again there is a huge gap between the theory of saying "PAL is better," and actually getting better results.

I don't know that any transfer from the NTSC set could [measure up], it just doesn't seem good enough. The PAL set has much more detail and is without the bad jaggies. Not to mention not having to mess with reversing telecine or the 7.5 IRE NTSC black level boost.

The X0 transfer will be the best NTSC can offer. You'll have to see then if it stacks up. The PAL set has somewhat more detail, and includes a fair amount more dust and crap. If you get the Japanese Collector's Set, the black level is at the NTSC-J standard 0 IRE.

I didn't mean there was just one proper way to do it (or that I knew what it was). I just meant that the way the transfer is done is quite important in my theory that the PAL discs are better and that just because the PAL discs are the source, doesn't mean it's better than any transfer from the NTSC discs. At this point, I find the Editdroid discs to have the best picture (though, it has it's problems and I'm very much looking forward to seeing the X0 & Cowclops transfers), but think it could be outdone by the right PAL transfer. I have seen screengrabs of the current X0 transfer and the PAL grabs still look better to me. I know saying they have much more detail is subjective, but I said that as detail is very important to me and I chose the Editdroid set over the TR47 set for the minor amount of extra detail it had on it. So I chose to say much more detail is found in the PAL discs, because to me there looks to be. You can actually see the stars on this transfer, the crawl and opening shot look so much better. As far as a good enough PAL player not being out there, I see nothing wrong with the sample clips I've seen. But you can talk from actual experience, since you have these things. You certainly are better qualified than myself. These are just the conclusions I've come to from the many, many (and yes, many) hours of research and messing around transferring my own set and dowloading others, which I admit has nothing on hands-on experience. I could be dead wrong and this is another thing that keeps me from springing for the materials needed in my idea of the "ultimate" transfer. You're right about the Japanese LDs having the correct black level and I have seen grabs from them that suggest they would be a slight step up from the US discs. The dust and crap doesn't really bother me and I can accept that and the cropping on the PAL discs, I feel it a worthwhile trade off for the better detail. On the subject, does anyone know if any of the prior PAL releases are worth checking out? I've read posts by a few people that actually prefer the 1989 WS NTSC discs to the NTSC DC/faces sets. I've never seen them myself and can't comment, but the posters claimed that while the '89 WS discs have more dust and noise, the picture is more detailed and not flat looking like the DC transfer. I could go for that if it's true (but either way, they'd look like crap on my player with the CLV smear, so I haven't bothered). I can live with film sourced flaws when trading for them with mastering flaws like heavy handed NR, poor color correction, jaggies and such.