Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 376

I swear there’s no escaping this crap. Read a review of an Elvis Blu Ray, and was tempted to respond to a two paragraph comment from some guy who basically trashed the King for no apparent reason, (why even bother to click on the review if you don’t like Elvis?) then saw what was on their Facebook page and feed. Yikes.

Warbler said:

As for Washington and Jefferson, it would not surprise me if some wish to tear down their statues. They were slave owners. I’m sure some view them as nothing but slave owning racists.

Sure, that’s a view of it. A distinction most make, though, is that neither Washington nor Jefferson were so married to the idea of slavery that they were willing to murder US soldiers over it–or if they were, they never actually had the opportunity to prove it. Even Lee’s “the reluctant traitor” image doesn’t wash that part clean. Washington and Jefferson statues also generally were not placed around the nation as part of a broader effort to intimidate the local population into submission (i.e. lynching and the whole hundred-year reign of terror thing), which is why we have the Confederate ones in the first place. It’s more important to me to look at why the statue is there than who the statue is of, if that makes sense.

Confederate statues are, to me, more akin to statues of Timothy McVeigh than Washington or Jefferson. It’s no coincidence that many of the people at this march defending the Confederate statues were also McVeigh admirers–and not particular admirers of Washington or Jefferson.

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Confederate statues are, to me, more akin to statues of Timothy McVeigh than Washington or Jefferson.

I am not sure it is valid to compare Confederates to the likes of Timothy McVeigh. A lot of people boil the Confederacy down to slavery and racism. I am willing to bet the truth is a bit more complicated.

People retroactively apply all sorts of alternate intentions on the Confederates. Fortunately, the Confederates documented their intentions when they wrote their various Causes for Secession. Slavery and racism were right there in black and white: “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world”. “Fighting for southern hospitality and the right to sip sweet tea under the willow oaks” didn’t make the cut. South Carolina even included language explicitly opposing the principle of states’ rights (which is the one thing most commonly retroactively misattributed to the Confederate cause). Not a lot of scholars think the Confederates weren’t truthful when they wrote down their causes for secession, but I suppose the argument’s been made.

But all that is a little beside the point, since the statues were put up long after the Confederates were defeated, during the reign of terror (End of Reconstruction to Civil Rights Act), when Confederate identity was already undergoing changes, and was less about slavery specifically and more about white supremacy in general.

McVeigh isn’t a perfect analog for the Confederates, he’s just the best I could come up with. But the primary difference is he had a much lower body count.

Do any other countries put up monuments and statues to the losing side in a war?

SilverWook said:

Do any other countries put up monuments and statues to the losing side in a war?

The South was just ahead of the curve on the concept of participation trophies.

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

Do any other countries put up monuments and statues to the losing side in a war?

Do any other countries fetishize guns like we do?

Yes. Oh yes yes yes lordy yes some do. But those countries can’t necessarily afford to have 1.13 guns per human, so there’s that.

If they’d only had a permit!

https://twitter.com/Twitter/status/897519878084608000

How are you spending #NationalRelaxationDay?

https://twitter.com/Crazzyintheusa/status/897403375607840768

Meanwhile at the hardware store.

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/897322610601582593

FYI, if you’re wondering how Germany commemorates Hitler, this is the spot where he died:

My God, this country is full of idiots.

Not that that’s a surprise.

I tend to stay out of this thread, and political discussion in general. Not that I’m apathetic, I’m just not very comfortable in my opinions and am often genuinely scared of being wrong. Not today though. The president says that “some” people who are/ally themselves with white supremacists are “fine people.” I don’t say things like this often, but this is utter bullshit.

Wait, what point is Tucker Carslon trying to make here?

And holy hell, that’s a bad wig.

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

If they’d only had a permit!

You do realize that John Adams defended the British Soldiers in court and got them acquitted, right?

He got some of them acquitted. The two who fired directly into the crowd were found guilty of manslaughter, which was a death penalty offense–reduced later to branding (yoiks!). And permits didn’t enter into it at all. Did I suck all the life out of that or what?

SilverWook said:

And holy hell, that’s a bad wig.

I’m telling you. You see a partially-deflated topiary on someone’s head, run for cover.

suspiciouscoffee said:

I tend to stay out of this thread, and political discussion in general. Not that I’m apathetic, I’m just not very comfortable in my opinions and am often genuinely scared of being wrong. Not today though. The president says that “some” people who are/ally themselves with white supremacists are “fine people.” I don’t say things like this often, but this is utter bullshit.

As someone who can sometimes be a little a lot on the strident side, let me say that even if I seem like a biter of heads, I do understand not only differences of opinions but also uncertainty and unease about them. It’s just some people (like me) are more comfortable with conflict than others, and we actually are just used to disagreements being a little more on the blunt and maybe even a little rude side. But anyone who posts here is a friend. Unless they’re some Nazi asshole, then fuck em 😉

That said, a good BS detector is a fine thing to have, and yours appears to be in perfect working order. I’d love to hear more from you.

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

If they’d only had a permit!

You do realize that John Adams defended the British Soldiers in court and got them acquitted, right?

He got some of them acquitted. The two who fired directly into the crowd were found guilty of manslaughter, which was a death penalty offense–reduced later to branding (yoiks!). And permits didn’t enter into it at all. Did I suck all the life out of that or what?

The joke was Trumpy wouldn’t know or care. I’d love to know what kind of grades he got in history class growing up. (Not to mention basic science.) His academic record is probably more elusive than his tax returns.

Trump lawyer Michael Cohen would like you to know that he has many black friends.

https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/897803706737074177

As the son of a holocaust survivor, I have no tolerance for #racism. Just because I support @POTUS @realDonaldTrump doesn’t make me a racist