Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 349

It’s unfortunate that “SJW” has become an insult.

darthrush said:

NeverarGreat said:

yhwx said:

Yikes.

https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

Sidenote: This is not to be anti-Google or pro-Apple or pro-/anti-anything. These sorts of ideas exist in many many companies in this country and I’m sure just as many abroad. I am 100% sure that Apple might have these problems in the same amount or maybe even worse. This happens to all corporations. It’s a systemic issue.

I found myself agreeing with one of the guy’s main arguments, which is that there is a specific difference in gender regarding whether a person has an interest in people as opposed to things. See this for why that is, and a fascinating look at just the sort of problem this guy has encountered at Google. In short, there is a huge difference in genders in this specific area, and the cause for this single difference may be more biological than cultural. This in turn could force a company to resort to ever more aggressive policing of microagressions and perceived sexism in an attempt to attract more women to an area of a company that realistically will never reach complete employment equality.

Now, the 10 page ‘screed’ has many other issues and I’m not defending them, but it seems like the response to the essay is as problematic as the essay itself. I’ve found that a good rule of thumb for anyone interested in a serious discussion online is to always assume the best of the person you’re debating, and always seek to de-escalate the conversation in order to avoid ad homninems and other petty attacks. I find it concerning that the comments for this airing of grievances do not attempt this sort of thing, but are exactly the type of virtue-signaling that conservatives hate about liberals.

And yes, I get the issue that a member of a privileged group is complaining that his privilege is under attack, and I have no interest in defending his privileged status. But he clearly thinks there’s a problem, and a whole lot of people who elected our current government feel the same way. At some point it becomes counterproductive to antagonize conservatives for losing the culture wars, and it becomes important to find some common ground. This isn’t a zero sum game.

I always appreciate efforts to find common ground with conservatives like myself and think that you eloquently explained why it is so important to try to promote fruitful discussion and civil discourse.

No need in finding common ground with people whose opinions are trash.

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

NeverarGreat said:
At some point it becomes counterproductive to antagonize conservatives for losing the culture wars, and it becomes important to find some common ground. This isn’t a zero sum game.

The so-called culture war is fought almost entirely online by the most despicable people on both sides.

Tell that to all the gay people who can now get married.

Or to the women who can now vote.

Or to the black people who can now go to white schools.

While I realize the first one only happened recently, the other two happened many years ago, way be online discussions were a a thing

I think you missed the point.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

NeverarGreat said:
At some point it becomes counterproductive to antagonize conservatives for losing the culture wars, and it becomes important to find some common ground. This isn’t a zero sum game.

The so-called culture war is fought almost entirely online by the most despicable people on both sides.

Tell that to all the gay people who can now get married.

Or to the women who can now vote.

Or to the black people who can now go to white schools.

I was referring to the so-called culture war that people online claim to be fighting. Those accomplishments you listed were won with actual action.

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

NeverarGreat said:

yhwx said:

Yikes.

https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

Sidenote: This is not to be anti-Google or pro-Apple or pro-/anti-anything. These sorts of ideas exist in many many companies in this country and I’m sure just as many abroad. I am 100% sure that Apple might have these problems in the same amount or maybe even worse. This happens to all corporations. It’s a systemic issue.

I found myself agreeing with one of the guy’s main arguments, which is that there is a specific difference in gender regarding whether a person has an interest in people as opposed to things. See this for why that is, and a fascinating look at just the sort of problem this guy has encountered at Google. In short, there is a huge difference in genders in this specific area, and the cause for this single difference may be more biological than cultural. This in turn could force a company to resort to ever more aggressive policing of microagressions and perceived sexism in an attempt to attract more women to an area of a company that realistically will never reach complete employment equality.

Now, the 10 page ‘screed’ has many other issues and I’m not defending them, but it seems like the response to the essay is as problematic as the essay itself. I’ve found that a good rule of thumb for anyone interested in a serious discussion online is to always assume the best of the person you’re debating, and always seek to de-escalate the conversation in order to avoid ad homninems and other petty attacks. I find it concerning that the comments for this airing of grievances do not attempt this sort of thing, but are exactly the type of virtue-signaling that conservatives hate about liberals.

And yes, I get the issue that a member of a privileged group is complaining that his privilege is under attack, and I have no interest in defending his privileged status. But he clearly thinks there’s a problem, and a whole lot of people who elected our current government feel the same way. At some point it becomes counterproductive to antagonize conservatives for losing the culture wars, and it becomes important to find some common ground. This isn’t a zero sum game.

I always appreciate efforts to find common ground with conservatives like myself and think that you eloquently explained why it is so important to try to promote fruitful discussion and civil discourse.

No need in finding common ground with people whose opinions are trash.

sigh

And this is why I don’t particularly like coming to the politics thread as much any more.

I don’t think liberal opinions are trash. I genuinely believe that you want to make the world a better place just the same as I do, and that we disagree on the best way to do that.

This rising elitist attitude where you dismiss and demean other people’s opinions is not going to get us anywhere. Approaching political discourse with a goal to effectively articulate your perspective and understand your opponents is something that I do think is worthwhile, not just saying “I don’t care, your opinions are trash.”

https://twitter.com/yonatanzunger/status/894027595364220929

One other thing that’s our job is not being silent when this kind of thing happens. What you tacitly permit, you encourage.

DominicCobb said:

This isn’t a great way to put it, but I agree in some ways. Certain debates don’t deserve a common ground - somewhere in between isn’t always the best place to be. But I do believe it is important to engage with the other side so as to at least reach a point of understanding.

Well, opinions and debates have different qualities. Opinions are informed by facts, colored by your basic values/morality/outlook/etc. There’s a common modern refrain that everyone has a different opinion, and nobody needs to bother with facts because facts are opinions too. Which leads to bullshit debates and pointless yelling and name-calling because what else could it lead to.

But if you can agree to the same set of facts, and have an argument about how those facts can be interpreted based on personal values, that’s a debate worth having. But an opinion that throws facts out the window as step 1? Yeah, it really is trash not worth bothering with. For example, we shouldn’t really be debating whether or not there’s a global warming trend anymore – the only purpose that serves is to misinform people who might not have known the facts on that matter are long-settled. Engaging in trash debates spreads trash opinions, no matter which side you’re on.

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

NeverarGreat said:

yhwx said:

Yikes.

https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

Sidenote: This is not to be anti-Google or pro-Apple or pro-/anti-anything. These sorts of ideas exist in many many companies in this country and I’m sure just as many abroad. I am 100% sure that Apple might have these problems in the same amount or maybe even worse. This happens to all corporations. It’s a systemic issue.

I found myself agreeing with one of the guy’s main arguments, which is that there is a specific difference in gender regarding whether a person has an interest in people as opposed to things. See this for why that is, and a fascinating look at just the sort of problem this guy has encountered at Google. In short, there is a huge difference in genders in this specific area, and the cause for this single difference may be more biological than cultural. This in turn could force a company to resort to ever more aggressive policing of microagressions and perceived sexism in an attempt to attract more women to an area of a company that realistically will never reach complete employment equality.

Now, the 10 page ‘screed’ has many other issues and I’m not defending them, but it seems like the response to the essay is as problematic as the essay itself. I’ve found that a good rule of thumb for anyone interested in a serious discussion online is to always assume the best of the person you’re debating, and always seek to de-escalate the conversation in order to avoid ad homninems and other petty attacks. I find it concerning that the comments for this airing of grievances do not attempt this sort of thing, but are exactly the type of virtue-signaling that conservatives hate about liberals.

And yes, I get the issue that a member of a privileged group is complaining that his privilege is under attack, and I have no interest in defending his privileged status. But he clearly thinks there’s a problem, and a whole lot of people who elected our current government feel the same way. At some point it becomes counterproductive to antagonize conservatives for losing the culture wars, and it becomes important to find some common ground. This isn’t a zero sum game.

I always appreciate efforts to find common ground with conservatives like myself and think that you eloquently explained why it is so important to try to promote fruitful discussion and civil discourse.

No need in finding common ground with people whose opinions are trash.

sigh

And this is why I don’t particularly like coming to the politics thread as much any more.

I don’t think liberal opinions are trash. I genuinely believe that you want to make the world a better place just the same as I do, and that we disagree on the best way to do that.

I used to feel that way, but the far right has hijacked the Republican party. If you want to discuss how much people should be taxed, ok. If you want to call gay people sinners who are going to hell so of course they shouldn’t be allowed to get married, no thanks.

I’m actually right with you Frink. I no longer call myself a republican but rather a conservative atheist with socially liberal views. The Republican Party no longer represents conservatism, and now is more of a corporatist, religious groupthink.

I am quite the fiscal conservative but don’t care who you marry, what you smoke, and I also wanna keep religion out of politics so it kind of pisses me off when people dismiss my viewpoint which I think is a pretty legitimate one.

Quick question: What was the last substantive debate we had in the Politics thread?

IMO the thread is worth keeping, I tend to get some good needed perspective while reading through it, despite all the petty bickering on all sides, and am usually confident that if I happen to have a political question, that this is a decent place to ask.

I’d like to see an actual scientific paper on the biological differences between men and women affect their interests. So far, I have seen none.

Jeebus said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/u-s-muslims-more-accepting-homosexuality-white-evangelicals-n788891

Damn, they are even crazier than I thought.

Jeebus said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/u-s-muslims-more-accepting-homosexuality-white-evangelicals-n788891

Damn, they are even crazier than I thought.