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FOX issuing takedown notices to Sith downloaders — Page 2

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Okay, the way I see it, I've already seen RotS 3 times in theaters. And one of the tickets I baught on Fandango, which adds an extra dollar. So I've already spent 23.50, and each time I've gotten various snacks and a drink. That brings it up to around $31 - $35. I also plan on seeing it a fourth time this weekend with my older Brother, and I'll probably get snacks and a drink then aswell. That'll bring the money I've spent up to around 50 dollars. Maybe more.

That's right around the price of a new release DVD. And I'm with out doubt going to be buying the official DVD when it comes out in November. That means I'll have spent $80 - $100, depending on where I buy the DVD.

That's already way more money than I would spend on almost any other movie. If I'm already giving him all this money, and the only thing that will stop be from getting the official DVD when it comes out is death, then why shouldn't I be allowed to download the movie?

An example: Say my brother has a really cool toy. Now, I really like the toy, so I give my brother a lot of money so I can play with it for one hour. I do this a few times, and then find out that a good friend of mine has the same toy, and he's giving it away for free. So, I go to my friend and get the toy. I've already give my brother a load of money, and he still has the toy. So, what's wrong with me also having the toy?

Besides all this, RotS has already made $317,502,507 worldwide, and everyone knows it's going to make much, much more. There people already have so much money, so why are they complaining about this? It's just rich people wanting to get richer, and it's stupid.
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first ive seen it twice and have spent $18 on it i will probably see it again with my brother. I will buy the dvd the day it comes out as well.

but not everyone that downloads it is like you and me and probably many other people on this site. so it doesnt ultimatly matter if we will go out and buy 3 copies of the dvd when its released or 1. the law is in place to protect the people that created and to do that it has to handle the lowest common denominator. is that right? should someone that makes a movie (or other work) be able to make money off it and control how and when its released? I guess you can debate the answer to that, but as it stands in the US they should be able to.

as far as the money you spent. My $18 is the price of the two tickets I bought. It doesnt include snacks, which i dont buy cause they along with the tickets are overpriced, so if the theater owner is going to get money from me for something i think is over priced im gonna limit the money they get. Fandango charges you for the service of buying online tickets, that was your choice, its not an extra dollar in the Studios pocket, and actually comes from higher credit card rates for online/phone orders. Same with snacks, that doesnt go to the Studios, at least not directly as far as i know. I mean, technically i could include the price i paid for gas to get to the theater on money i spent on the movie. Im not trying to belittle you, but the point is, just because you paid for the movie once, or twice or however many times. and spent however much money on it doesnt mean you have the right to have the movie before its officially released.

if its a tvshow that has been off the air for years and there is no inkling of it ever being released, while under the law its the same, in my view its different than a movie that has just come out in theaters and we already know its gonna be on dvd in 5 months. You've waited how long for the movie to be released and you cant wait another 5 months for the dvd so you can watch it anytime you want? Plus, what dvds of single movies, that arent 'collectors' sets or something along those lines that cost you $50. Episodes I & II MSRP's was 29.98, even retail stores like best buy were selling it new when it first came out for around $22.

now, while overall my line of thinking of downloading stuff is probably more along the same lines as yours as opposed to the MPAA's and RIAA's it doesnt make it right in the law. but seriously, the numbers of what they are loosing is hugely exaggerated. if i had a copy of episode III on dvd, or even an mpeg, would i probably watch it 10+ times while it was still in theaters? yeah, probably. would i still see it multiple times in the theater, again yes. If i didnt have a copy, which i dont, would i go to the movies 10+ times and spend $9 a viewing to see it, nope.

your toy example is also flawed. in that example the toy was payed for. Your brothers was paid for by him. Your friend paid for his. whoever made the toy got paid for both. when your friend gives the toy to you there is still only 2 'copies' both of which were paid for. its technically a gift. replace toy with dvd, it still plays the same, unless now instead of giving the toy to you, your friend makes a copy of the toy (ie downloading) now there are 3 copies, one of which was made in violation of the law. I could also argue, that now using dvd instead of toy, your brother is falsly profiting from the movie because its for private viewing and in violation of copyright law.

again, not trying to bash you, just pointing out the MPAA's problem with downloading. are they totally correct? no, like i said, i probably agree more with your line of thought. but not everyone does. Did they cause the problem? it could be argued yes, through hi prices and what not. do i think they are combating the problem wrong (created by them or not)? yes.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I understand what you're saying, but I still don't agree with you. =/
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Yep, Elitetorrents are gone, hope all you guys who got ROTS a have a magnet near your comp

@Darth Simon If it seems like i'm being a pain in the arse, its just that I have recently completed my dissertation on this very subject and just this morning had to debate the findings with a panel of examiners and am still in 'devils advocate' mode
Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"
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I don't care if you've seen ROTS 57 times and paid each time, if you download it and watch it without paying for that viewing, you are stealing. When you buy a DVD, you buy the right to watch it as many times as you like. When you buy a movie ticket, they print the time and that is the only time you are given the right to watch the film for the money you paid.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
I don't care if you've seen ROTS 57 times and paid each time, if you download it and watch it without paying for that viewing, you are stealing. When you buy a DVD, you buy the right to watch it as many times as you like. When you buy a movie ticket, they print the time and that is the only time you are given the right to watch the film for the money you paid.


Can I transfer the license puchased when I bought the dvd to someone else? Most computer software is non-transferrable. For example, person A buys a copy of....Halo for PC and install it on their machine. They then decide they don't like it and uninstall it. Technically speaking, they cannot give the software to their friend. However, if they do, and keeping in mind that they did uninstall it prior to giving it away, should they be prosecuted? I'm not sure how it works with movie licensing. You can go crazy deciding what's legal and illega, right and wrongl. I for one believe that making a movie available online to millions of people does result in lost revenue for the studios. Do I believe giving a movie to a friend after I've watched it is illegal? Probably...immoral? Not even close...

Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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First off, I have no problem with you letting your buddy down the street watch YOUR copy of the film. Legally, I don't know what the standing on this sort of thing is. I believe you have a limited liscense to use it for your personal use, but from there out I'm fuzzy. I know you can't mass distribute it. However, I seriously doubt LFL, the FBI and the MPAA are going to have huge crack down friends lending their DVDs to each other. Likewise, I don't think LFL has a problem with what we do here, as exhibited by MF's invitation to the Ranch for a screening. Is what we do legal, from a certain point of view yes, and no. Does Lucas seem to care, in that he will shut us down? Doesn't seem like it. We do it out of appreciation for what he has done in the past and present. We aren't trying to cheat him out of a buck.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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norinradd, not a problem. i can fully understand that...well not fully as i havent done a dissertation, but i can see how it can put you in 'devils advocate mode' i guess i was being someone of a devils advocate myself, so sorry if i roused your feathers but overall i agree that lawsuits arent the answer, the MPAA and RIAA need to think ahead of the game and take control over these methods to use them to benifit themselves if they really want to reduce their 'losses' if they realized that their prices are too high, and took a lesson from itunes and similar services they would probably curb a good chunk of illegal downloads and actually sell more product.

Hardcore, i pretty much agree with your point of view. there seems to be a fine line between illegal and immoral when it comes to this topic. Im not that familar with actual copyright law as im not a lawyer and dont pretend to be, but i wonder what the official legal stance on loaning a tape to your friend is. do the blockbusters and hollywood videos pay licensing fees that allow them to rent movies? I think part of the problem is, the current copyright law really doesnt adequatly cover some/most/all of these possibilities

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Does Lucas's choice of distributing the movie as he see fit, have any pertience in this discussion? Really that's a significant factor. Society has created the copyright laws which state that for a certain period of time, the creator has exclusive rights to the distribution of said work. Sure it's extremely easy to now distribute media of various sorts like music of movies, but are you all really ready to say that just because we can, we should not give creators the right to control how their work is displayed or presented?
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The network signed up 133,000 members who collectively downloaded 2.1 million files, according to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement division of the Homeland Security Department.

Visitors to the Web site on Wednesday saw a notice that read, "This site has been permanently shut down by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement."


I'm so glad that HOMELAND SECURITY and the FBI are fighting to keep our movie studios safe from bootleggers. We can all sleep easy at night knowing no group of bootleggers will hijack a plane to ram it into the Paramount Studio lot. Ugh!

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Originally posted by: Asha
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The network signed up 133,000 members who collectively downloaded 2.1 million files, according to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement division of the Homeland Security Department.

Visitors to the Web site on Wednesday saw a notice that read, "This site has been permanently shut down by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement."


I'm so glad that HOMELAND SECURITY and the FBI are fighting to keep our movie studios safe from bootleggers. We can all sleep easy at night knowing no group of bootleggers will hijack a plane to ram it into the Paramount Studio lot. Ugh!



In case you missed it about 4 years ago, much of the Justice Department was put under the heading of Department of Homeland Security. Kinda like how the Secret Service is in charge of catching counterfeit money, but their name really has nothing to do with it.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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"It only affects a small portion of their PROFIT margin"

Speaking of which, how much do you sell your DVD sets for on Ebay...

"Someone had to upload it first in order for it to be downloaded at all."

If someone left their house or car unlocked, does that make it okay for you to enter it?

Just because someone gives you the opportunity to break a law, doesn't mean you have the legal or moral standing to do so. Personal responsibility does come into play here.

"so is weed legal in some countries? yes. does that mean i can go buy it there and bring it back to the US for my personal use? no, because it then violate US laws. same for downloading files. does sweden have laws in place to protect US copyrights (apparently not) but does that mean its legal for someone in the US to download the file? nope"

Agreed.

I don't fool myself into thinking that putting these LD transfers to DVD, or downloading the ROTS workprint, is legal in any way, shape or form. It isn't even an issue, as far as I am concerned. It's something that I am going to do regardless, for many good personal reasons, none of which have a chance of hell of standing up in court. I've come to grips with this, but those of you soothing yourselves by coming up with reasons to validate your own individual acts of theft are just shouting at the wind. It changes nothing.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: JediSage
Sharing Network Shutdown



"The raid targeted administrators of the network and those who provided movies and other copyrighted material. Similar cases in the past have found that such "first providers" are typically entertainment-industry insiders, rather than outside hackers."

This quote taken from your link is the first time I have read of "entertainment-industry insiders" being targeted...



Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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Lord knows that when it's all said and done, Lucasfilm will have pulled close to a hundred dollars out of my pocket for ROTS.

I have no guilt in downloading a bootleg for reference, no guilt at all.
Not all illegal things are wrong. The dark side I sense in the officials who are suing for their own selfish gain.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

I never had the nerve to make the final cut.

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How are they suing for their own selfish gains? It's their product, they deserved to be paid for it. Rationalizing it as you paying over $100 in the end has no bearing on you stealing now. If you spent $100 in the grocery store, but stole a box of cereal, does that make it any less illegal?
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Apparently so...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Apparently so...


Either that, or the grocery store is just greedy.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Amen, Hal.

Look: I don't even download movies, but I find the FBI/Homeland Security's involvement in this both frightening and sickening. I mean ... it's only a movie, right? It's not as if these people were swapping the plans for the Death Star! So why are the feds involved?

I don't believe downloading a film is necessarily an exercise in sound ethics. But who are the victims here? A handful of millionaires who have the entertainment industry so rigged that a new filmmaker can't shoot a guy drinking a Pepsi unless Pepsi has paid for product placement? A handful of millionaires hellbent on making it impossible to release a film for under $5 million? A handful of multi-million dollar movie theater companies (the ones who squeezed out the local theatres in the 90's) who tack-on 20 minutes of extra trailers to Revenge of the Sith ... without informing the audience in advance how long they're going to be waiting to see the film?

These people aren't victims ... they're criminals on a scale so large that they can make their own laws. Lucas certainly isn't a victim of downloading ... his movie is doing gangbusters! It's like feeling bad for the Sheriff of Nottingham while Little John gets slapped with a $5000 fine plus legal expenses.

The MPAA's obsessive quest to control all information exchanges is disturbing. I hope that the more they tighten their grasp, the more systems will slip through their fingers.
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"These people aren't victims ... they're criminals on a scale so large that they can make their own laws. Lucas certainly isn't a victim of downloading ... his movie is doing gangbusters! It's like feeling bad for the Sheriff of Nottingham while Little John gets slapped with a $5000 fine plus legal expenses."

And they have personally oppressed you........how? My desire to put the OOT on DVD stems from the fact that Lucas doesn't see fit to do so, but I don't turn this into a ridiculous scenario of oppression. I think we're a step away from calling Godwin's law here.

Download, or don't download, but don't give such one-sided "end of the world" reasoning to validate it. Lucas is no more the Sheriff of Nottingham than you are Robin Hood.

"or the grocery store is just greedy."

LOL

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Apparently so...


Either that, or the grocery store is just greedy.


I plan on buying three different boxes of cereal, mixing them together in my own way and giving a little baggy of my mix to several of my friends... does that make *me* a criminal? Maybe if they re-imburse me for the cost of the baggies it does...
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stop with the reselling/redistributing non duplicated hard goods analogy.

buying something and giving it to someone else is the same thing a gift. there is still only one copy of it, and the makers of it got paid for that copy. when you duplicate and redistribute it its totally different (uploading/download duplicates the material)

If i buy a book and give it to a friend nothing is wrong...i bought the book for my friend. If i read the book first and then give it to my friend this is still acceptable (it makes me a cheap bastard who gives used stuff as gifts but that doesnt affect the company that made the book, ok,well it technically does because they sold 1 copy and 2 people read it, but no law (that i know of) was broken during this process). If i buy the book, photo copy all the pages, bind it together and give the copy to my friend i just broke copyright law (something about unlawful reproduction) there are now two copies. if my friend pays me for all the paper and binding materials i used to make the copy does that make it legal? no you still broke the law in making the copy for him. You can argue you didnt sell it (though you did cause you accepted money for it) more accuratly you didnt profit from it. but in a sense you did (providing your duplicating costs were less than buying the real thing, which if it wasnt your an idiot).

so what the hell does mixing apple jacks, cheerios, and cinnimon toast crunch into baggies have anything to do with anything. your not making bootleg product. there is the same amount of cereal present after you put it in the little baggies as there was when you bought it. The amount of cereal consumed by you and your friends with the baggies is the same as if you had bought the three boxes and ate them all yourself while watching reruns of General Hospital.

It doesnt matter if you hate the MPAA or not, illegally downloading/sharing copyrighted material is illegal. If you do it through legit methods (ie itunes) its a different story.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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"so what the hell does mixing apple jacks, cheerios, and cinnimon toast crunch into baggies have anything to do with anything. "

He's just making a joke to lighten up this heavy-handed thread.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"so what the hell does mixing apple jacks, cheerios, and cinnimon toast crunch into baggies have anything to do with anything. "

He's just making a joke to lighten up this heavy-handed thread.


And apparently not doing a very good job of it either.