Doctor Who — Page 68

Tantive3+1 said:

Warbler said:

Tantive3+1 said:

just on how regeneration was established.

please elaborate.

Not counting the EU, the classic series established 12 regenerations, no more no less, and then that was the end. While the closest thing a Time Lord could control was their appearance; Night of the Doctor comes along claiming to engineer the Doctor to a “warrior” and that the ninth, tenth, and eleventh incarnations were in name only.

With the 2013 Christmas special, the long awaiting of looking forward to the final thirteenth incarnation where his death would be on Trenzalore, the prophecy of
"the oldest question in the universe would be asked…" (Clara read the book w/ the Doctors name in Journey to the Center of the TARDIS then had flashbacks of it in The Name of the Doctor) with the Silence, and the Doctors future encounter with Lorna Bucket was all thrown in the trash when the BBC made the changes in the 50th anniversary special. It was a sorry excuse of trying to wrap it all up.

Well they kinda had to do something about a timelord having only 12 regenerations. If they did not, the Doctor would eventually die and the show would be over.

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Yeah, it’s more than just a TV show, but the actors are professionals and cannot be expected to serve in any capacity whatsoever after their contract is up.

I am not taking about legal responsibility. I just think actors should make their minds up before taking the role about whether or not they would be willing to return for the anniversaries. If not, don’t take the role at all. When you sign on for a part like the Doctor, there is much more to it than just the contractual requirements.

It’s nice when they participate, but how many SW conventions has Harrison Ford attended? One in 40 years? The actors are people and each have their own lives, priorities, and work/family schedules.

I didn’t know he only attended 1 convention in 40 years. But his case is different:

1. When he signed on to play Han Sole in Star Wars, he couldn’t have any idea what kind of thing Star Wars was going to become. Eccleston knew what kind of the role the Doctor was when he took the part.

2. He still came back and played the role in The Force Awakens. Eccleston did not come back, to the detriment of the 50th Anniversary Show.

Warbler said:

towne32 said:

Warbler said:

towne32 said:

I’ve seen it suggested that the BBC wouldn’t go for McGann for the 50th, but who knows if that’s true. If anyone is to be blamed for the War Doctor, it’s Chris Eccleston. Though he’s well within his rights to want nothing to do with the show, it’s obviously different than every other actor who has had the role.

I disagree. He knew when he took the part of the Doctor what kind of role he was taking. He knew about the Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, and The Two Doctors. He knew about the legacy surrounding that part. If you are unwilling to take part in anniversary specials, you shouldn’t take the role in the first place. His absence from the 50th anniversary special is glaring.

He’s just an actor in a role. His responsibility is for the length of his contract.

I disagree. For normal roles, that is the case. The Doctor isn’t a normal role. Doctor Who isn’t a normal tv show. There is a legacy surrounding this show and that part. IMO, if you agree to take the role, it is your responsibility to appear in the anniversary specials. You don’t want to do that? Don’t take the role in the first place.

Fans might see it differently, but he is of course not a fan of the show and had a bad experience working on it.

If I am not mistaken, whatever people he had the bad experience with, were probably no longer with show by the time of the 50th anniversary. Btw, just what was the bad experience? Does anyone know?

As highly as we regard it, it is still just a TV show,

It is not a just a TV show, anymore than Star Wars is just a movie. The Fallguy was just a TV show, Falling Down was just a movie. Doctor Who and Star Wars are bit different than that.

He has no moral or contractual obligation. We’d prefer it if he got involved, but he’s not that type of actor. All he gets in return is being many of our least favorite Doctor Who actor. No sleep will be lost.

As far as what happened during his time there, allegedly Phil Collinson was a total dick to a lot of the people on set (lighting crew, etc) and Chris stuck up for them and it caused tension. But who knows. Chris has taken the high road so far and not named names.

I can’t find the interview right now, but I believe there was also one that stated that in Chris’s talks with Steven about returning, he had a condition that he got to choose the director (which had already been settled). Not clear if that was a dealbreaker, as I’m sure Chris didn’t want to do it for plenty of reasons.

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

oh come on, Patrick Stewart knew he wasn’t joining an ordinary tv show. Star Trek had done 4 films by then and who know how many books. Trekkie was a word that existed at that. He knew what he was getting into and so did Eccleston. Yes, maybe there was a small chance it wasn’t going to work, but still it was DOCTOR WHO . He had to know he would forever be linked to Doctor Who and would forever be the 9th Doctor.

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

towne32 said:

Warbler said:

towne32 said:

Warbler said:

towne32 said:

I’ve seen it suggested that the BBC wouldn’t go for McGann for the 50th, but who knows if that’s true. If anyone is to be blamed for the War Doctor, it’s Chris Eccleston. Though he’s well within his rights to want nothing to do with the show, it’s obviously different than every other actor who has had the role.

I disagree. He knew when he took the part of the Doctor what kind of role he was taking. He knew about the Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, and The Two Doctors. He knew about the legacy surrounding that part. If you are unwilling to take part in anniversary specials, you shouldn’t take the role in the first place. His absence from the 50th anniversary special is glaring.

He’s just an actor in a role. His responsibility is for the length of his contract.

I disagree. For normal roles, that is the case. The Doctor isn’t a normal role. Doctor Who isn’t a normal tv show. There is a legacy surrounding this show and that part. IMO, if you agree to take the role, it is your responsibility to appear in the anniversary specials. You don’t want to do that? Don’t take the role in the first place.

Fans might see it differently, but he is of course not a fan of the show and had a bad experience working on it.

If I am not mistaken, whatever people he had the bad experience with, were probably no longer with show by the time of the 50th anniversary. Btw, just what was the bad experience? Does anyone know?

As highly as we regard it, it is still just a TV show,

It is not a just a TV show, anymore than Star Wars is just a movie. The Fallguy was just a TV show, Falling Down was just a movie. Doctor Who and Star Wars are bit different than that.

He has no moral or contractual obligation.

contractual? no.

moral? yes. He knew about Doctor Who. He knew about the anniversary specials. He knew about the legacy of the show. He took the part of the 9th Doctor. No one forced him to do.

We’d prefer it if he got involved, but he’s not that type of actor.

Then he shouldn’t have taken the role in the first place.

As far as what happened during his time there, allegedly Phil Collinson was a total dick to a lot of the people on set (lighting crew, etc) and Chris stuck up for them and it caused tension. But who knows. Chris has taken the high road so far and not named names.

Phil Collinson was no longer part of the show by 2013.

I can’t find the interview right now, but I believe there was also one that stated that in Chris’s talks with Steven about returning, he had a condition that he got to choose the director (which had already been settled). Not clear if that was a dealbreaker, as I’m sure Chris didn’t want to do it for plenty of reasons.

Don’t why it was so important that he choose the director. Why should he alone have chosen the director and have no say from Matt Smith and David Tennent? Surely they would have just as might right to say over the choice of director? That sounds primadonna-ish. Maybe if he’d open his mouth about the other reasons, I would understand better. I’d love to know what those reasons are.

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

Yes, but nothing can prepare you for Trekkers showing up in costume in the audience at the Shakespeare play you’re in. That actually happened to Stewart.

oh how horrible. He had to put up with people in the audience in star costumes. btw, you do realize that after doing the tv series and 4 movies, Stewart made enough money from it that he wouldn’t have to work another day for the rest of his life, right?

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve never looked that deeply in Game of Thrones, yet I wouldn’t be shocked at all that if I were to join the cast, everywhere I would show my face there would be fans there dressed as the character I was to play.

Warbler said:
Maybe if he’d open his mouth about the other reasons, I would understand better. I’d love to know what those reasons are.

As much as I’d be interested in knowing too, it’s not our business (which is what I’m sure he would say if any random person asked him), and it’s been 12 years.

deleted.

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

Yes, but nothing can prepare you for Trekkers showing up in costume in the audience at the Shakespeare play you’re in. That actually happened to Stewart.

oh how horrible. He had to put up with people in the audience in star costumes. btw, you do realize that after doing the tv series and 4 movies, Stewart made enough money from it that he wouldn’t have to work another day for the rest of his life, right?

If you aren’t expecting it (can’t imagine why you would), it would certainly catch you off guard.

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve had to explain to many people who Spock is. It’s crazy how small everything is in context of the larger world.

Handman said:

Warbler said:
Maybe if he’d open his mouth about the other reasons, I would understand better. I’d love to know what those reasons are.

As much as I’d be interested in knowing too, it’s not our business (which is what I’m sure he would say if any random person asked him), and it’s been 12 years.

Well we are the ones that had to put up with the glaring absence of the 9th Doctor from the 50th Anniversary, I’d like to know why.

Handman said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

Yes, but nothing can prepare you for Trekkers showing up in costume in the audience at the Shakespeare play you’re in. That actually happened to Stewart.

oh how horrible. He had to put up with people in the audience in star costumes. btw, you do realize that after doing the tv series and 4 movies, Stewart made enough money from it that he wouldn’t have to work another day for the rest of his life, right?

If you aren’t expecting it (can’t imagine why you would), it would certainly catch you off guard.

Unless they were being disruptive in the audience, I don’t see the big deal. What does it matter to the actor what the audience is wearing? Just perform the play.

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve had to explain to many people who Spock is. It’s crazy how small everything is in context of the larger world.

YOU’VE HAD TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO SPOCK IS‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ Who the heck are these people and where have they been for the past 50 years‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ My God.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

Handman said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

Yes, but nothing can prepare you for Trekkers showing up in costume in the audience at the Shakespeare play you’re in. That actually happened to Stewart.

oh how horrible. He had to put up with people in the audience in star costumes. btw, you do realize that after doing the tv series and 4 movies, Stewart made enough money from it that he wouldn’t have to work another day for the rest of his life, right?

If you aren’t expecting it (can’t imagine why you would), it would certainly catch you off guard.

Unless they were being disruptive in the audience, I don’t see the big deal. What does it matter to the actor what the audience is wearing? Just perform the play.

It’s uncomfortable for some people. Sometimes they want to be remembered for more than just one TV show or movie they did.

Then I would suggest those people stay away from things like Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who.

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve had to explain to many people who Spock is. It’s crazy how small everything is in context of the larger world.

YOU’VE HAD TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO SPOCK IS‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ Who the heck are these people and where have they been for the past 50 years‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ My God.

Regular people.

no,no,no,no. Regular people know about Spock. He’s iconic. Regular people might know about Sybok or Sonak, but they do know about Spock. You’d have to live somewhere totally unconnected to civilization to not have heard about Spock.

SilverWook said:

Handman said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

doubleofive said:

Maybe Eccleston didn’t believe the reboot of Doctor Who was actually going to work. Think about how little Patrick Stewart was prepared for Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple years. It’s just a TV show to some, most eventually grow to love the role, but some just don’t.

I think there’s been a tradition since TNG of giving the casts of the newer Treks a friendly warning/heads up of the craziness that’s about to enter their lives.

If they have any brains, they shouldn’t need a warning. Everyone not living under huge boulder knows what Star Trek is.

Yes, but nothing can prepare you for Trekkers showing up in costume in the audience at the Shakespeare play you’re in. That actually happened to Stewart.

oh how horrible. He had to put up with people in the audience in star costumes. btw, you do realize that after doing the tv series and 4 movies, Stewart made enough money from it that he wouldn’t have to work another day for the rest of his life, right?

If you aren’t expecting it (can’t imagine why you would), it would certainly catch you off guard.

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve had to explain to many people who Spock is. It’s crazy how small everything is in context of the larger world.

And I once encountered a middle aged woman who had Star Trek plates in her antique mall type store and didn’t know what the heck Star Wars was. That baked my noodle.

was she in a coma when the movies came out???

To not know about Spock, you have to be totally unconnected to civilization or in a coma or something like that.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

Being aware of Trek as a tv show or film franchise does not mean you’ve looked deeply into the fandom. (A few were fans before being cast in later Trek incarnations, but most are just hard working actors.) Even Star Wars is just a movie to some folks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. Unless you’ve lived all your life on deserted island with absolutely no contact with the outside world, you have to know that both Star Trek and Star Wars have a huge devoted and somewhat crazy fan bases. It is not like there never been a Star Trek convention before NextGen.

I’ve had to explain to many people who Spock is. It’s crazy how small everything is in context of the larger world.

YOU’VE HAD TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO SPOCK IS‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ Who the heck are these people and where have they been for the past 50 years‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ My God.

Regular people.

no,no,no,no. Regular people know about Spock. He’s iconic. Regular people might know about Sybok or Sonak, but they do know about Spock. You’d have to live somewhere totally unconnected to civilization to not have heard about Spock.

Well I don’t think these people are totally unconnected to civilization. People grow up knowing different things. Not everybody knows what you and I know.

I just went through this conversation about two weeks ago. But it is still weird to hear how iconic these things are all your life and to suddenly be surrounded by folks who’ve never heard of any of it.