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Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles) — Page 56

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Chances are you’ve got some random subset of Project Threepio then, because it’s always included a README from version 1.0. How did you get it? I’d recommend downloading the full project (lots of info in first post, no direct link). I wouldn’t be surprised if you just got a bunch of SRT files (included with the movie?), and that would definitely cause needless confusion and problems. The very least of which is, without a README and version number, I have no idea if you’re using antique subtitle files with tons of problems or the latest ones.

That said, the same naming convention rules apply, so you probably want either ESB-eng-native or ESB-eng-sdh-native, depending on whether you want SDH or not. SUP format is preferred over SRT, although for English it should not make a huge difference.

EDIT: I just PM’d you. Yes, I know the project is large. That’s probably why you ended up with a small subset of it 😉

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Could you tell me the changes between version 9.2 and 10.0? I’m not sure if there is a reason for me to update.

“I want to watch Empire on my refrigerator’s LCD screen but listen to the Austrailan audio thru my USB phonograph setup and it worked on the other two movies” -yoda-sama

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The changelog (such as it is, I’m not terribly detailed about it) is on page 52. If you’re interested only in a particular language/type of subtitle, that may make the answer easier.

In 10.1 we will get improvements to Brazilian Portuguese, Hebrew, Arabic, possibly Dutch, and maybe even a surprise new language, although I’m trying not to get my hopes up about that.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

The changelog (such as it is, I’m not terribly detailed about it) is on page 52. If you’re interested only in a particular language/type of subtitle, that may make the answer easier.

Thanks. I’m mainly interested in German and English. Nice that there are native German subtitles now. But I mainly asked because I want to burn ESB Dreamastered on Blu-ray tomorrow and I obviously won’t need them for that.

“I want to watch Empire on my refrigerator’s LCD screen but listen to the Austrailan audio thru my USB phonograph setup and it worked on the other two movies” -yoda-sama

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Yeah, for German and English any changes are minor. I think there are a couple places where repeated lines were merged in the SUP in 9.3 (e.g. “The first transport is away!/The first transport is away!”) into a single subtitle, while in 10.0 I kept that from happening.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Hey CatBus, IIRC you posted a while back saying that you had developed your own software for rendering subtitles. I’ve been using easySUP to make my own .sup files from .ass files for years now for authoring subtitled anime Blu-rays, but the subtitles always flash when two or more subtitles have overlapping timings (really annoying when two characters are speaking at the same time, or when there’s onscreen song lyrics). Recently tried PunkGraphicStream but get the same problem (and now I can’t even run the software anymore since it started giving me a java.lang. unsatisfiedlinkerror).

Looked around doom9 for a solution but couldn’t find one, so thought I’d ask if you have this problem with your software.

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Ah, my software’s pretty purpose-built. Project Threepio doesn’t have any overlapping or even immediately adjacent subtitles–so just going over the logic in my mind, I imagine the SUP will end up having two distinct subtitles with overlapping timings and the same onscreen placement, which will likely behave badly as you describe. If it was smarter, it would probably create three adjacent subtitles, one for each distinct subtitle, and another for both subtitles showing at the same time, with placement adjusted, etc*. It would not be an easy change to the existing script, it would be a whole back-to-the-drawing-board type change.

So while my scripts have all the fancy features I wanted, it’s actually not nearly as feature-rich as other software (or else it’s simply broken) with regard to things that don’t apply to Project Threepio.

* Also, in my brief flirtations with immediately adjacent subtitles, I’ve found that not all players even do that very well, at least right now (they flash, they don’t show up, it’s a crapshoot). If you’re trying to make compatible subtitles, always leave a gap. It could be half (or more) of the problems you’re seeing are with the player, not the subtitles. *cough* especially if you’re using VLC *cough*

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Ah, never though it could be a player problem, but it seems that is indeed the case. Don’t know why I never tested it before (I’d usually only check to see if the first few subtitles displayed or not before burning to disc without checking overlapping timings), but when using MPC-HC, the subtitles display without turning off for a few frames when there’s overlapping timings, unlike my PS3 or Oppo BDP-80.

PC playback isn’t a very good option for me right now since I have an old Nvidia card that has tearing and judder on Blu-ray playback, but I’ll have to look into other hardware options.

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Yeah, player support for overlapping/adjacent subtitles is pretty spotty. On my end, the way I work around it is to not have them. I’m sorry to say that may need to be your solution as well, if MPC-HC playback is not an option.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

The changelog (such as it is, I’m not terribly detailed about it) is on page 52. If you’re interested only in a particular language/type of subtitle, that may make the answer easier.

In 10.1 we will get improvements to Brazilian Portuguese, Hebrew, Arabic, possibly Dutch, and maybe even a surprise new language, although I’m trying not to get my hopes up about that.

You know, I think I might have another idea for 10.1. iTunes has HD versions of the original trilogy with subtitles in the following languages:
-Arabic
-Bulgarian
-Cantonese
-Croatian
-Danish
-Dutch
-Estonian
-Finnish
-French
-Greek
-Hebrew
-Icelandic
-Indonesian
-Latvian
-Lithuanian
-Malay
-Norwegian
-Portugese
-Romanian
-Slovenian
-Spanish
-Swedish
-Traditional Chinese
-Ukranian
-Vietnamese
Perhaps you could use these to improve your existing subtitles. The only problem would be line changes (“You’re lucky you don’t taste very good” vs “You were lucky to get out of there”). Thanks in advance.

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CatBus said:

Yeah, player support for overlapping/adjacent subtitles is pretty spotty. On my end, the way I work around it is to not have them. I’m sorry to say that may need to be your solution as well, if MPC-HC playback is not an option.

Well, I also have a Popcorn Hour (I think it handles overlapping subtitles OK but haven’t checked recently), but for some reason it has a slight delay in displaying subtitles from BDMV folder structures. Building a media center PC (with perfect 23.976 playback) might be an option, but I don’t really want to go to the trouble right now. I’d like to get a new media player that handle all kinds of subtitles like a PC, not sure if such a media player exists but as to not clutter up your thread further, I made a request for suggestions here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Media-player-recommendations/id/56098

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rcs709 said:

CatBus said:

The changelog (such as it is, I’m not terribly detailed about it) is on page 52. If you’re interested only in a particular language/type of subtitle, that may make the answer easier.

In 10.1 we will get improvements to Brazilian Portuguese, Hebrew, Arabic, possibly Dutch, and maybe even a surprise new language, although I’m trying not to get my hopes up about that.

You know, I think I might have another idea for 10.1. iTunes has HD versions of the original trilogy with subtitles in the following languages:
-Arabic
-Bulgarian
-Cantonese
-Croatian
-Danish
-Dutch
-Estonian
-Finnish
-French
-Greek
-Hebrew
-Icelandic
-Indonesian
-Latvian
-Lithuanian
-Malay
-Norwegian
-Portugese
-Romanian
-Slovenian
-Spanish
-Swedish
-Traditional Chinese
-Ukranian
-Vietnamese
Perhaps you could use these to improve your existing subtitles. The only problem would be line changes (“You’re lucky you don’t taste very good” vs “You were lucky to get out of there”). Thanks in advance.

I might take a look (I have no iTunes account, but sometimes subtitles manage to find their way to me regardless). Often subtitles with streaming services are “farmed out”, and those contractors often just pull subtitles from free fansub sites. Most of the subtitles I have are from the official Blu-rays or DVDs, but I do have a few fansub-based ones like Vietnamese and Ukrainian. Even if they’re no better – or even if they’re worse – than the current Project Threepio subtitles (they could even be suspiciously identical…), Lithuanian and Latvian would make great additions.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Will (possible) future updates of Project Threepio contain subtitles for Adywan’s Revisited editions as well?

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No, this project is strictly theatrical OOT. I have to draw the line somewhere – I don’t even do the 1981 revised crawl.

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Hi Catbus
I am still working on the swedish subtitles. Sorry for taking so long time. I am thinking on making a tutorial on how to make a subtitle.

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Oh, hey I forgot about that, thanks. Complete re-translations are daunting, so I fully expect them to take a long time, as opposed to just pulling existing subtitles from a home video release or TV broadcast, or even transcribing a dub. The current Swedish ones aren’t the best, but I’d rather deal with them a little longer for a really great translation, than get something rushed. So take your time – I’m patient.

Speaking of just transcribing a dub: Slovak, Hindi, Tamil, and Navajo speakers, it’s a relatively easy job… fame and glory… or at least a hearty forum thank-you… the Hindi dub could also be turned into Urdu pretty easily…

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Just seeking feedback from my existing users on this–

In the current version of Project Threepio, subtitles are shifted to the top of the screen not only when there’s onscreen alien subtitles, but also for subtitles adjacent to those alien subtitles. For example, in the Han-Greedo exchange, ALL of the dialogue is shifted up even though technically only Greedo’s lines have to be shifted.

There were a few reasons for this: first, I felt that, particularly for subtitles using the Latin alphabet, it was hard on the user to alternate rapidly between high and low subtitles. Secondly, back in the early days of this project, there was no guarantee that burnt-in subs would have theatrical timing, so I needed to be able to dodge mistimed subs.

That latter part of the problem is largely solved, now that pretty much everything uses film-based burnt-in timings. The earlier part is pretty subjective. I’ve always felt that the Greedo scene worked pretty well, but that the Jabba scenes weren’t so cut-and-dry.

What does everyone else think? Should I shift Han’s lines back down? Should I leave Star Wars alone but consider doing it for Jedi? Are there other subtitles in other parts of the film that obscure some crucial detail and SHOULD be shifted up? The tractor beam text translation was a tough call–both high and low subs would block some text, so I went with low. Similarly, the SDH subs for the chattering probe droid noises – high blocks the tops of the antennae, and low blocks the droid’s head, so I went with high.

I’ve already pretty much decided to shift the pre-crawl titles back to low positions. That was just a legacy from when I shifted subtitles manually and it was just easier to keep track of things that way.

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For an example of the sort of thing I’m considering, the first scenario is just to see if the idea of shifting adjacent subs is warranted at all anymore. But the second scenario is to come up with a logical set of rules, apply them consistently to the subtitles, and see what that yields. For example:

Shift adjacent subtitles if it’s:

  1. One subtitle with shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides, and <350ms gap after shifted subtitle on leading side
  2. One subtitle with a shifted subtitle on leading side with <350ms gap between them
  3. Two subtitles with <350ms gap between them, shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides, and <350ms gap after shifted subtitle on leading side
  4. One subtitle with shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides and <350ms gap before shifted subtitle on trailing side

Using these rules, I’m completely unable to justify three of the adjacent shifted subtitles in ROTJ, and the remaining two are covered by rule #1, which seems like the rule everyone would agree on if you agree to the basic concept of shifting adjacent subtitles.

In SW, they are all still justified by one of the rules, but “I don’t have it with me. Tell Jabba–” and “Over my dead body.” are covered by rule #4, which is a pretty iffy one IMO. “Yes, Greedo. As a matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss./Tell Jabba that I’ve got his money.” are covered by rule #3, and “Yes, I’ll bet you have.” is rule #2.

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I agree with you about getting the subs out of the way so that you do not miss important details. But keep it consistent. If you put the subs up keep it up during the dialog. It is very annoying to go up down up down down up down up during a dialog. That is just my five cents.😄

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I’d never thought about this, CatBus. Do subtitles need to be moved to the very top?

When there are on-screen alien subtitles, could your subtitles be placed just above/below them rather than at the very top of the screen? If the alien subs are actually on the picture, then your subs could go in the black bar just underneath and vice versa?

Bluto

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Bluto said:

I’d never thought about this, CatBus. Do subtitles need to be moved to the very top?

When there are on-screen alien subtitles, could your subtitles be placed just above/below them rather than at the very top of the screen? If the alien subs are actually on the picture, then your subs could go in the black bar just underneath and vice versa?

Subtitles should never be in the black bars because they become invisible when someone projects the film in its original aspect ratio.

“I want to watch Empire on my refrigerator’s LCD screen but listen to the Austrailan audio thru my USB phonograph setup and it worked on the other two movies” -yoda-sama

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Yep, I’d never place subs in black bars (don’t worry). Scooting them up just a little would block the middle of the image, which is more likely to be problematic than going all the way to the top. I’m testing some things and will report some results.

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Discostu said:

Subtitles should never be in the black bars because they become invisible when someone projects the film in its original aspect ratio.

Understood - thanks for pointing that out. I have only ever watched things on a 16:9 TV / projection screen.

Bluto