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Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD — Page 17
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Originally posted by: Darth Editous
I assumed that the lizard thing from Ep III is a Krayt Dragon. Even before I'd seen Ep III I'd decided not to change the sound in the DVD, and I'm glad I didn't because I like the link. The original noise sounded too similar to a Dewback, to me.
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The original version was a Krayt (sp?) dragon noise while the 2004 DVD is of the lizard thing from Ep 3.
I assumed that the lizard thing from Ep III is a Krayt Dragon. Even before I'd seen Ep III I'd decided not to change the sound in the DVD, and I'm glad I didn't because I like the link. The original noise sounded too similar to a Dewback, to me.
DE
The official name of the ep 3 lizard is a Boga... at least from what I could find online. When I first heard the new sound in a new hope I was like WTF is Obi making a crazy bird call for? It's not very scary to freak out the sand people. Just my .02$.
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It's not very scary to freak out the sand people.
The way that scene is cut together, it always looked to me like Obi-Wan makes the call, the Sand People look up, see him and then run. If it was just Krayt Dragons that they're afraid of, they would have stopped when they saw it was just some old geezer in a hoody
Could this be a bit of a chinese whisper? What's the original source for identifying Obi-Wan's call as being that of a Krayt Dragon?
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Originally posted by: Darth Editous
The way that scene is cut together, it always looked to me like Obi-Wan makes the call, the Sand People look up, see him and then run. If it was just Krayt Dragons that they're afraid of, they would have stopped when they saw it was just some old geezer in a hoody
Could this be a bit of a chinese whisper? What's the original source for identifying Obi-Wan's call as being that of a Krayt Dragon?
DE
It's not very scary to freak out the sand people.
The way that scene is cut together, it always looked to me like Obi-Wan makes the call, the Sand People look up, see him and then run. If it was just Krayt Dragons that they're afraid of, they would have stopped when they saw it was just some old geezer in a hoody
Could this be a bit of a chinese whisper? What's the original source for identifying Obi-Wan's call as being that of a Krayt Dragon?
DE
Maybe they saw his lightsaber and had flashbacks to the Tusken Raider legend of this guy who single handedly killed a whole tribe of Tusken Raiders with a 'laser sword'
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin
0100111001101001011011100110101001100001
*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Making the Jundland Wastes all the more dangerous are immense reptiles stalking the craggy canyons in search of prey. These huge predators are known as krayt dragons and their bone-chilling howl is enough to send even ferocious Sand People skittering for cover
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Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.
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These huge predators are known as krayt dragons and their bone-chilling howl is enough to send even ferocious Sand People skittering for cover
That doesn't mean that Obi-Wan's howl was that of a Krayt Dragon - don't forget, "Sandpeople are easily startled"
Now that's a neat idea...
The official name of the ep 3 lizard is a Boga... at least from what I could find online.
That doesn't mean that Obi-Wan's howl was that of a Krayt Dragon - don't forget, "Sandpeople are easily startled"
Maybe they saw his lightsaber and had flashbacks to the Tusken Raider legend of this guy who single handedly killed a whole tribe of Tusken Raiders with a 'laser sword'
Now that's a neat idea...
The official name of the ep 3 lizard is a Boga... at least from what I could find online.
That's that particular creature's name, I've discovered - she's a varactyl, according to http://www.starwars.com/kids/activity/draw/f20050325/
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From the ROTS script (a deleted scene of course):
109 INT. UTAPAU-CITY-DRAGON CORRAL-DAY
OBI-WAN makes his way through the city, looking up at the tenth level with electro-binoculars from his utility belt. He tries to figure out how he is going to get up there. He hears strange bellowing cries and he investigates.
He comes across a corral filled with about half a dozen DRAGON-LIKE LIZARDS. SEVERAL WRANGLERS are standing around.
OBI-WAN walks up to the WRANGLERS and uses the Force with his slight hand movements.
OBI-WAN: I need transportation.
WRANGLER: (subtitled, in native tongue) You need transportation.
OBI-WAN: Get it for me.
WRANGLER: (subtitled, in native tongue) I will get it for you.
One of the WRANGLERS turns to the others and chatters away in his strange tongue. OBI-WAN walks along the line of DRAGON/LIZARDS, checking out each one. He looks at their teeth, legs, etc. Finally he pats one on the neck.
OBI-WAN: This one.
The WRANGLER brings the chosen one over to him.
WRANGLER: Boga. She answers to Boga.
OBI-WAN: Good girl, Boga.
OBI-WAN swings onto the back of the LIZARD. The beast rears up and scurries outside to the edge of the sinkhole.
OBI-WAN makes his way through the city, looking up at the tenth level with electro-binoculars from his utility belt. He tries to figure out how he is going to get up there. He hears strange bellowing cries and he investigates.
He comes across a corral filled with about half a dozen DRAGON-LIKE LIZARDS. SEVERAL WRANGLERS are standing around.
OBI-WAN walks up to the WRANGLERS and uses the Force with his slight hand movements.
OBI-WAN: I need transportation.
WRANGLER: (subtitled, in native tongue) You need transportation.
OBI-WAN: Get it for me.
WRANGLER: (subtitled, in native tongue) I will get it for you.
One of the WRANGLERS turns to the others and chatters away in his strange tongue. OBI-WAN walks along the line of DRAGON/LIZARDS, checking out each one. He looks at their teeth, legs, etc. Finally he pats one on the neck.
OBI-WAN: This one.
The WRANGLER brings the chosen one over to him.
WRANGLER: Boga. She answers to Boga.
OBI-WAN: Good girl, Boga.
OBI-WAN swings onto the back of the LIZARD. The beast rears up and scurries outside to the edge of the sinkhole.
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Originally posted by: Darth Editous
That doesn't mean that Obi-Wan's howl was that of a Krayt Dragon - don't forget, "Sandpeople are easily startled"
That doesn't mean that Obi-Wan's howl was that of a Krayt Dragon - don't forget, "Sandpeople are easily startled"
I fired up the old NPR radio drama from '77 and this what I found:
Luke: "What made the sand people leave?"
Obi: "I imitated the hunting cry of a krayt dragon, their imaginations did the rest and they took to their heels."
To-dah my useless vast knowledge of Star Wars trivia is correct! - Time
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Originally posted by: dumb_kid
To-dah my useless vast knowledge of Star Wars trivia is correct!
To-dah my useless vast knowledge of Star Wars trivia is correct! Good call! And if it weren't for useless vast knowledge of Star Wars, most of us wouldn't be here!
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Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.
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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Though one must admit, said knowledge makes finding worthy trivia opponents pretty much impossible.
Though one must admit, said knowledge makes finding worthy trivia opponents pretty much impossible.
Yep... I remember a couple of christmas's ago me, my family, and my wife played the OT trivial pursuit. We decided all of them vs me... and keep in mind my family as a whole loves the OT and has seen it countless times. They got the first role and answered the first 5 or 6 questions in a row. Then I went and it was all over in three minutes. LOL
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Here are the options that I've considered, but wonder what others of you think:
1) Just put both mixes in together. This does very little to fix the swapped music problem so it's a crappy option to me.
2) Simply plug '97 rear where 2004 rear is. Not a great option because a lot more mixing is present in the 2004 version.
3) Run 2004 rear in dual mono (send both channels to both rear speakers). You lose the panning effect of the rear, but you still have an effective rear separate from center, right and left.
4) Run regular rear-stereo 2004 simultaneously with a copy of the same tracks, but with lowered volume and dual mono. This will normalize the music somewhat, but not all the way. Some of the instrumentation will balance out, but it will still be stronger in the wrong place. However, this will help preserve the FX somewhat as well. May be the best compromise.
5) The pain-in-the-ass method I was trying for a while where music-only cues were flip-flopped (to correct them), but cues with FX present were run as they were presented. Too damn much work for a half-baked solution.
I have mixed the old Krayt sound with a smidgeon of the new, restored the 1997 echoes in the chasm, the fanfare, and restored the "he's on your tail" line before Red 5 bites it.
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)Any foreigners around here who can rip the Dolby Digital soundtrack from their DVDs.
Obi: "I imitated the hunting cry of a krayt dragon, their imaginations did the rest and they took to their heels."
To-dah my useless vast knowledge of Star Wars trivia is correct!
To-dah my useless vast knowledge of Star Wars trivia is correct!
LOL...I'm liking this guy already (though there was no doubt in my mind that this was the sound Obi-wan was imitating.)
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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Why don't you get the surrounds from the AC3 soundtrack of one of the foreign releases (which *didn't* have this particular "creative decision"
It's a nice idea... but personally I don't think it's worth the effort. I still can't hear any problem with the music (though perhaps a "correct" mix would sound better), and it wouldn't be as simple as dropping in the rear channels from another country's DVDs - the echoes in the Death Star (is that what you meant by the chasm, ADM?) would still have to come from the English soundtrack, for example. I know there's a lot of leakage of dialogue from the center to the fronts, but I'm not sure about the rears, generally.
If anyone does try, bear in mind most foreign countries use PAL/SECAM, so you'll have to resample at a ratio of 1:0.95904
Better to wait for the next DVD release, which will probably have all these "creative decisions" reversed
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Grisan, are you around and can you confirm this?
MBJ (or anybody), if any dialog gets sent to the rears (I'm unsure if it does or not) that would be in a foreign language, which could make the mix that much more fun to dork around with.
I'm muxing now. I went with a hybid option of the existing 2004 rear stereo, rear dual mono AND 1997 rear stereo. Brought the levels down to a pretty close match.
For the DL version (which I'll probably knock out in the next week or so), I intend to make this custom mix, the pure 1997 mix, the pure 2004 crap mix, the 2004 stereo mix, AND another custom mix (I'm calling the heresy mix) available. I haven't done the latter yet, but I intend to.
I found something quite interesting while working on these. the 1997 mix and the two 2004 mixes don't quite synch up right. If you align them at the beginning, they're off by a couple of frames by the end. It's not noticible, even when you watch it, obviously, but I did find it curious.
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I thought all 5.1 mixes had this screw-up, and that the reason so many foreign tracks sounded correct was because they were all 2.0 being (correctly) processed by Pro-Logic.
Prologic only has one rear channel, so I don't think you could really tell which mix it came from.
I found something quite interesting while working on these. the 1997 mix and the two 2004 mixes don't quite synch up right. If you align them at the beginning, they're off by a couple of frames by the end. It's not noticible, even when you watch it, obviously, but I did find it curious.
Prologic only has one rear channel, so I don't think you could really tell which mix it came from.
I found something quite interesting while working on these. the 1997 mix and the two 2004 mixes don't quite synch up right. If you align them at the beginning, they're off by a couple of frames by the end. It's not noticible, even when you watch it, obviously, but I did find it curious.
When I was doing the DVD from LD a couple of years ago I had to manually sync the sound to the video. I found it was pretty hard to notice any sync problems within 2 or 3 frames. So I'd go even further out of sync, making a note of how bad it was and then splitting the differences.
The interesting thing I've discovered from doing the DVDs is that the audio on all DVDs seems to be ~80ms (two frames) in advance of the video, so don't try and sync it up externally and expect it to stay in sync once you've made the DVD. True DVD players play back in sync, but DVD player software on PCs seems to keep them out of sync.
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I got PMs from you guys asking for copies. I tried PMing you back but it didn't work - I might have copied your names down wrong. Can you PM me your addresses?
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I was under the impression that the foreign soundtracks were correct - pointing to an obvious flaw in the "creative decision" reasoning. Perhaps Neil could verify this?
And since nothing I know of edits AC3 files, my scenario would be to transpose them to wavs, load the surrounds into a sound editor, replace any french dialogue with english (leaving as much of the French musical soundtrack as possible), and then re-encode with the english fronts into a new AC3.
I could actually do this quite easily, if someone could get the foreign soundtracks to me. I know that re-encoding AC3 tracks after converting the original AC3 to WAV isn't the greatest scenario, but I think the final product would sound pretty good to all but the most sensitive of ears.
"The interesting thing I've discovered from doing the DVDs is that the audio on all DVDs seems to be ~80ms (two frames) in advance of the video, so don't try and sync it up externally and expect it to stay in sync once you've made the DVD. True DVD players play back in sync, but DVD player software on PCs seems to keep them out of sync."
Some DVD mastering programs, like DVDLab-Pro, allow you to add or subtract the necessary milliseconds to sync up the audio and video, if necessary. That being said, I've always edited my audio and video to be in sync in Vegas (with soundtracks, commentaries, and mixes), so this was never necessary for me to do. Other programs may be different.
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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I sat thru your re-edit of ROTJ. Quick question, what would it take to put the Jabba / Green babe's / 3PO's dialog back into the Jabba Palace dance scene???
Besides the loss of dialog your re-edit of that scene is 100X better than Jedi Rocks crap...Good Stuff.
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ADM, the best thing for you to do is totally ignore the 2004 mix. It's not Star Wars in anyway.
Neil
Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.
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Aw, damn.
Well, maybe I could apply my 2.0 to 5.1 process to the PCM track on the DVDs (assuming that recording isn't goofed up either.)
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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