4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 213

I actually have seen the Criterion release of Benjamin Button at WalMart.

SilverWook said:
I get the impression most of the “old school” ILM’ers have retired or moved on. Was astonished to see John Dykstra had a credit on Kong: Skull Island.

He worked on Godzilla too.

joefavs said:

I actually have seen the Criterion release of Benjamin Button at WalMart.

Yeah, but that was the initial home video release of the movie.

Paramount licensed the movie to Criterion just like Disney did The Life Aquatic.

I could see the big box stores carrying a Criterion release of Star Wars though, if only because it would definitely sell well.

But this brings me back around to why I think that would never happen.

For one thing, isn’t Criterion usually pretty big on presenting the movie as the director intended? Because for Star Wars that definitely ain’t the OOT. Also, I just don’t see Disney licensing it when they’ve already got to work out a deal with Fox over ANH. That would be three different companies handling one movie.

But even that doesn’t seem as big of a road block to me as George still being around to voice his opinion on it.

Criterion has released at least two movies he was involved with (Kagemusha and Mishima: A Life In Four Parts) and they interviewed him for their release of The Hidden Fortress. Would they really feel comfortable going behind his back like that?

I’d really think that including it as “bonus material” on Disney’s official release of the SE is the much more likely scenario. Clearly labeling it as the “rough draft” George always considered it feels more respectful of his wishes than a Criterion release of just the OUT.

But dammit, I still want my '97 SE and theatrical TPM/AotC.

poita said:

“Did it stop Ridley Scott from remastering those cuts and releasing them together?? Nope”

The difference here is that Ridley Scott wanted to do it, whereas George Lucas and Kennedy actively don’t want it to happen.

It would have made perfect sense to have the BD boxset include the OUT if it was a matter of it being slightly more profitable to do so.

"Another example is how a few years ago Kino released a cut of the silent film Metropolis with restored footage not seen since the original release. "
I was involved with the Kino release, the restoration cost was bugger all and there were no royalties to be paid. Prints were borrowed from collectors, it was a simple, quick money grab that only had to move a few units to be profitable, and not a single person out there that didn’t want it to happen. Again totally different situation to the OUT.

Companies suck, for Disney to care about something, it has to be worth many, many millions for them to bother. If an SE 4K release would make $300 million or $305 million by taking the risk of packing in an OUT, then they would never take the risk. $5 million return is pocket change, and a risk is always a risk. It will cost them millions to restore the OUT, even with having the scans in place, the sound restoration on SW for the SE cost $8 million alone.

I want it to happen, but can’t conceive of a universe where it will happen in the next ten years.

There are a ton of LFL people at Siggraph this year, I’ll be canvassing all of them, and already know quite a few, but I am pretty sure the answer will be the same as that from the ones I have already spoken to. Not a ‘maybe’ or a ‘no’ or a ‘no comment’ but a ‘huh?’

Was it even Ridley’s idea to include the various earlier cuts or was that Charles de Lauzirika’s doing?

We don’t know what Kennedy does/doesn’t want to do with the OOT. All we know is that she isn’t going to go changing George’s versions, which should’ve been a given anyway (again, why couldn’t that guy just have asked her what we all wanted to ask her???).

I’m convinced George would have eventually double-dipped on the blu-ray and included the original versions if the Disney deal hadn’t happened. He’d already stopped saying it was his “vision” and switched to “it’s too expensive right now” (translation: “Why include it on the first blu-ray when I can just sell it to you all over again?”).

As for the $300/305 million debate, consider the fact that by the time a 4k UHD release rolls around many people will still not have upgraded their hardware to 4k. They’ll need a good reason to buy these movies again on regular 1080p blu-ray since a 4k remaster won’t make much of a difference.

Including the OOT is that reason.

Also, consider how the initial blu-ray release was handled. You had to buy the I-VI set in order to get those three extra discs of bonus features, right? Well, who is to say they won’t do the exact same thing in 2020 … except this time those three extra discs will be the OOT?

Agreed on everything else, though. And yes, please ask as many “in-the-know” people as you can about the OT’s current status. We appreciate the effort!

SilverWook said:

I did spot Life Aquatic at Target a couple times.

How deeply was George involved with those films though? IIRC, they got about a page each in that book on Lucas that came with the Definitive Collection Laserdisc box. I think Howard The Duck had a longer entry. 😉

And we’re back again to the matter or whether George still gives a crap or not. Maybe a multi disc set ala Brazil that included the awful happy ending tv cut?

Brazil is actually a good example since Universal put out the U.S. theatrical cut on blu-ray and then Criterion put out theirs a couple years later with Gilliam’s preferred version (and, yes, the “love conquers all” version in 1080i as a bonus feature).

I actually could see something similar happening with Star Wars going forward. Disney would keep handling I-VI as they see fit, but in the meantime Criterion could put together their own release. George doesn’t really consider the ST (the one we’re getting, anyway) as part of “his” saga, right? Criterion could give us “The Tragedy of Darth Vader” and make it that “film school in a box” someone mentioned George always intended. Most importantly, they could include freshly remastered transfers of the original versions to give the proper historical context for these films. I doubt George would mind. He might even do another interview with them! It would make for a nice time capsule years from now when he’s not around to talk about these movies anymore.

Get Disney and Fox to sign off on it and voila, we would have our dream scenario.

Disney will probably want to keep whatever they end up doing with their releases of I-VI on the simple side. They’ll probably want to get it down to one disc per movie so they can eventually put out a box set that includes Rogue One, Han Solo, and the ST and still be able to sell it for a reasonable price.

Of course, I’d also want the OOT available on 4k UHD and Criterion hasn’t announced their plans for supporting the new format, but that could change in time.

Fang Zei said:

Get Disney and Fox to sign off on it and voila, we would have our dream scenario.

Thanks for sharing your fanfiction with us, Fang.

This isn’t about Disney and Fox though. I would suggest to read Poita’s post again.

SilverWook said:

You’re probably right. It’s just mind boggling that any version of a movie could be so erased from the public consciousness.

It hasn’t been. Look around at all the great people on this site.

At this point I don’t even care what happens officially anymore. Would I love for there to be an official, properly done restoration and release? Absolutely. But so long as Disney/Lucasfilm continue to ignore this little corner of the internet and let us do our thing, I’m good with that.

Bottom line is, I don’t care who saves these films so long as SOMEONE does it. And thank God we’ve got people with the knowhow, contacts, and resources to actually get it done! I wish I could contribute more than I have (and if I’m able, will hopefully do more in the future), but I’m so grateful for everyone who’s helped and especially people like poita and harmy who’ve spearheaded projects and done so much!

^I agree completely.

poita said:

Yeah, without the original Director/Producer/Writer (GL) on board, it makes it more unlikely for a third party like Criterion to have a go at it.

Also, I think people underestimate just how much George hates the originals vs the Special Editions. There is no way he ever would have double dipped and released them. I think part of it is also tied to Marcia and their fallout.

George actually laughed with glee when shown Han stepping on Jabba’s tail for the first time, and considered it one of the best things they had ever done. He loves the vision of the SE, and that’s cool, he is allowed to, but you really have to understand just how much he doesn’t want the originals to exist anymore.

Anyway, I’m sure everyone has their own opinion on this stuff, mine is that it isn’t going to happen so we need to do it properly, others will be convinced it will happen, and honestly I hope they are right, but I don’t believe there is a shred of evidence or even a scenario where it could be vaguely probable to happen.

In regards to Marcia, are you referring to the theory that she got a cut of the OT’s sales until the SE came along and negated it? I thought that rumor was debunked. Unless you’re referring to something else.

Someone please educate me a little more.

I own the most recent Harmy blu rays and I love them. Is that the best available version of the OUT right now?

I read about Mike Verta doing a 4K scan from several different prints and the color being off and lots of work needing to be done. How much better would it look than the Harmy blu rays? Resolution isn’t the only thing when it comes to a good looking picture. I’ll take a clear 1080p or even 720p over a degraded picure in 4K resolution. I also read that he was told by Disney/Lucasfilm that he could never share his work so does it matter anyway?

What is Project 4K77 and how is it different from Mike Verta. What is the Silver Screen Edition?

All of these prints and even the original negatives have deteriorated so much over the years, how would someone restoring them even come to a decision on what the correct colors should look like?

Sorry for all the questions, and sorry for anyone who dislikes a recap of the conversations had over the years. I am just trying to catch up and understand. There is a lot to take in.

rodneyfaile said:

What is Project 4K77 and how is it different from Mike Verta. What is the Silver Screen Edition?

Seeing as you can literally google those questions…

Or perhaps read the threads on all those projects on this site.

dahmage said:

rodneyfaile said:

What is Project 4K77 and how is it different from Mike Verta. What is the Silver Screen Edition?

Seeing as you can literally google those questions…

I have, but doesn’t mean I understand exactly what they are talking about. I thought I would ask the opinions of a group most passionate about the subject.

Possessed said:

Or perhaps read the threads on all those projects on this site.

That would be a whole lot of reading through irrelevant posts to get the pertinent information.

I just thought I would have a conversation with a few people knowledgeable about the subject. I didn’t know it was already talked about and was to never to be brought up again. I thought people here would enjoy talking about it.

rodneyfaile said:

I just thought I would have a conversation with a few people knowledgeable about the subject. I didn’t know it was already talked about and was to never to be brought up again. I thought people here would enjoy talking about it.

I don’t want you to think i was just snarky, but i did literally google that entire phrase i quoted, and it gave me a full page of useful search results that would answer your questions. Now, if you want to discuss those various preservations, the best thing to do would be post in a relevant thread in the preservation sub-forum.

JEDIT: this will be useful: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Project-Index-Star-Wars-Preservation-and-Other-Projects/id/2450/page/3#1042669