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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 212

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Sougouk said:

JawsTDS said:

TV’s Frink said:

And the argument that buying a ticket to The Last Jedi will stop the OOT from ever coming out is insanely stupid.

Don’t you mean The LOST Jedi?

Mall Intercom: This is security, we have a lost Jedi, I repeat, we have a lost Jedi. Anyone who may have lost their Jedi, please come to the south entrance to reclaim him/her.

Hell No!

—Lil’ Orphan Ani’s Mom Schmear

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rodneyfaile said:

So few people even know anything about the special edition changes. Of the few who do know about them, I am surprised how few really care. You’d think changes to such a beloved trilogy of movies and the suppression of the original versions would send the large passionate fan base into a frenzy.

Nope.

Pretty quiet.

While standing in various lines at Star Wars Celebration, I was surprised how other fans didn’t want to chat about the possibility of an OUT release, even during the 40th anniversary of the original. I even got a few eye rolls. I could barely believe it. Nothing is going to change anytime soon, which means the desire for the original versions is just going to become more and more obscure because the vast majority doesn’t even know and the few who do don’t even care.

Lucas succeeded. He changed history.

I don’t think it’s going to happen. Ever. Enjoy your fan made projects. My Harmy blu-rays have a place of honor among my collection. Disney/Lucasfilm and the majority of fans are more concerned with the new movies now. I love the new movies too, but it is a shame we have forgotten where they came from. The number of people who care about the OUT is only going to decrease.

The SE of Star Wars is still the most well-known “other version” of a movie ever.

Sure, there are many people who know and don’t care. That’s simply what happens when you’ve got such a large fandom. The people at Celebration aren’t really a good sample demographic for gauging people’s interest in the OOT. A lot of them are “Star Wars fans” first and “movie fans” second.

In my opinion, the ones clamoring for the OOT on blu-ray are movie fans first and foremost.

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Fang Zei said:
The people at Celebration aren’t really a good sample demographic for gauging people’s interest in the OOT. A lot of them are “Star Wars fans” first and “movie fans” second.

In my opinion, the ones clamoring for the OOT on blu-ray are movie fans first and foremost.

Great lines and excellent point!

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That is kind of sad, as Star Wars is one of the things that made me passionate about movies. But to each his own.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Me too, Wook. I had seen the OT countless times before I can even remember as a little kid. But then one day, I grew up. I still cherish my childhood memories but my appreciation of the OOT first and foremost comes down to them being superlative films. Not Star Wars films, but films of exceptional quality and importance to our culture.

If someone is just a STAR WARS! OMG I LOVE STAR WARS! GIVE ME MORE STAR WARS! fan…I can’t say I have much in common with them anymore.

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I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. You can be a “STAR WARS! OMG I LOVE STAR WARS! GIVE ME MORE STAR WARS!” type of fan and also a movie lover. I like a wide variety of movies, everything from old black and white foreign noir to the new Wonder Woman movie. But let me tell you, when The Last Jedi is released, I go straight back to being an excited kid and it’s one of the best things in the world. I appreciate the groundbreaking pieces of cinematic history that the Original Trilogy movies are, but I also love the experience of the new movies and how it continues to influence our culture.

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How many names did the original petition get?
From memory it was less than 90,000

For an online petition.

And how many of those names would pirate it and not buy it?

Without a big marketing campaign, selling the OUT versions would be extremely difficult to get a real ‘spike in profits’.
Any marketing campaign would also potentially be saying that the SE is, well rubbish, which is a tricky thing for a company to say about their own product which is still making them money.

The big question is, how much extra money would an OUT 4K release bring over and above just a 4K SE release? I can’t see it being very much, and by the time the restoration and marketing money required to educate the populace about what the hell an OUT version is, and make them want it, well, I can’t see the money argument for Disney.

To them, there are a handful of crackpots out there that want the original versions, they also know that no matter what they release at least half those people would complain about it being too restored, not restored enough, too grainy, too clean or a thousand other niggly complaints.

Outside of these forums, and a few hundred posts on other sites when it is mentioned, where do you see the clamouring for people to buy the originals of a movie that is now over 40 years old? Most petitions I have seen get anywhere for 7 to a hundred or so signatures. The petition here ran for years and didn’t get 100,000 people.
The people that saw the original Star Wars in the cinema in their 20s are now in their 60s. The people that saw it as young kids in the cinema are now approaching 50.

I will talk with more people at Siggraph, but honestly, everyone I speak to is honestly baffled, it isn’t on anyone’s radar there, even slightly. Normally if you probe about something that is even being vaguely considered, the answer is “I can’t talk about that”, but this was just “huh?”.

I want them to release an OUT, I’d love to be able to get the 4K scans they have, but I can’t think of a financial reason for them to do so.

The only scenario I can see is if someone like Criterion approached them, with a solid business case for a Criterion style release. Something that Disney doesn’t have to confuse their marketing with, that they can keep at arms length, and that has money coming in from a third party company.

I can’t see that happening either, where is the evidence for the demand? I certainly wouldn’t bet the cost of a major release on a market that can’t get 90,000 online signatures for something.

For the last 20 years, the SE is the Star Wars people have watched and known and loved. For many, it was the one they saw in the cinema. It is their Star Wars, and has been for two decades.

It isn’t my Star Wars, and it irks me badly, but I can’t see evidence of enough demand out there to make a business case for Disney to risk money and ‘brand confusion’ in the marketplace by committing to a 4K restored OUT, unless there is a sudden and huge upswell in people asking for it.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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In my mind it’s so much simpler, though.

When it comes time to release these movies on 4k, that’s when they include the OOT. They could even put it out on regular blu-ray since many people will still not have upgraded their hardware.

Yes, I know, “the SE in 4k will be reason enough for people to buy it.” But that’s where I disagree.

Either way, Poita, I commend your efforts. This is an important piece of film history and the 35mm prints should be preserved in the highest possible quality.

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Fang Zei said:

In my mind it’s so much simpler, though.

When it comes time to release these movies on 4k, that’s when they include the OOT. They could even put it out on regular blu-ray since many people will still not have upgraded their hardware.

Yes, I know, “the SE in 4k will be reason enough for people to buy it.” But that’s where I disagree.

Either way, Poita, I commend your efforts. This is an important piece of film history and the 35mm prints should be preserved in the highest possible quality.

But why would they do that? The unaltered originals do not seem to even be on their radar and they don’t need them as a selling point, so what would make them spend the money and do the work?

Sorry to be so skeptical, but I have no confidene they will ever go back to those versions, so that makes fan preservation project so much more important.

I doubt it will ever have a great enough effect to get the attention of the mainstream, but as long as they survive is all that matters. There will always be some who are interested and it should be available to them.

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Ok here’s how it goes. From the concensus I’ve seen it appears that a good majority of the Star Wars fans who own the current BD sets are fine with them as is. So a simple 4K restoration of the same SE is likely not gonna be enough of a good selling point to sell the same version again. So what do they do?? Restore the original cuts to be included WITH the 4K restored SE.

Seriously guys. Quit being morons. Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A 4K release with only the SE or a 4K release with both cuts?? One cut caters to only a specific market while more than one cut caters to multiple markets.

Case and point. How many people do you actually suspect petitioned to have all those cuts of Blade Runner released together?? Compared to Star Wars probably little to nothing. Did it stop Ridley Scott from remastering those cuts and releasing them together?? Nope. Another example is how a few years ago Kino released a cut of the silent film Metropolis with restored footage not seen since the original release. Compared to Star Wars who do you think really gave a crap about that?? Nonetheless did it prevent them from restoring and releasing it?? Don’t think so.

I’m honestly puzzled why some of you even ask why Disney would spend the money to restore the originals while at the same time neglecting to realize that a restored OUT is likely gonna be packaged as an extra to the SE anyways. However as long as the originals are presented in proper quality I’m sure the majority of us would be fine with it.

Until Lucasfilm/Disney gives a direct response on the matter the speculation resumes as far as where I stand. And no the Kathleen Kennedy interview does not count.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Ok here’s how it goes. From the concensus I’ve seen it appears that a good majority of the Star Wars fans who own the current BD sets are fine with them as is. So a simple 4K restoration of the same SE is likely not gonna be enough of a good selling point to sell the same version again. So what do they do?? Restore the original cuts to be included WITH the 4K restored SE.

Seriously guys. Quit being morons. Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A 4K release with only the SE or a 4K release with both cuts?? One cut caters to only a specific market while more than one cut caters to multiple markets.

Case and point. How many people do you actually suspect petitioned to have all those cuts of Blade Runner released together?? Compared to Star Wars probably little to nothing. Did it stop Ridley Scott from remastering those cuts and releasing them together?? Nope. Another example is how a few years ago Kino released a cut of the silent film Metropolis with restored footage not seen since the original release. Compared to Star Wars who do you think really gave a crap about that?? Nonetheless did it prevent them from restoring and releasing it?? Don’t think so.

I’m honestly puzzled why some of you even ask why Disney would spend the money to restore the originals while at the same time neglecting to realize that a restored OUT is likely gonna be packaged as an extra to the SE anyways. However as long as the originals are presented in proper quality I’m sure the majority of us would be fine with it.

Until Lucasfilm/Disney gives a direct response on the matter the speculation resumes as far as where I stand. And no the Kathleen Kennedy interview does not count.

Are YOU serious? Most Star Wars fans have bought pretty every release of Star Wars since the first home video version was released in the early 1980s. All they needed to do, was claim it’s been remastered, or add a few extras. So, given that reality, what makes you believe this trend will suddenly stop with a 4K release? If they release a 4K version with a few new extras, the damn thing will sell like crazy, like all Star Wars releases have, with or without the OOT.

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rodneyfaile said:

But why would they do that? The unaltered originals do not seem to even be on their radar and they don’t need them as a selling point

This isn’t true. The OOT is on LFL’s radar. It’s on their radar as something they don’t want to do. The lack of release is not due to omission and it has nothing to do with money. It has to do with the fact the George doesn’t want it done and that’s good enough as far as Kathleen Kennedy is concerned. Did you see the cake that was delivered to the 40th anniversary crew celebration? It was signed: “George & Kathleen”.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A 4K release with only the SE or a 4K release with both cuts??

From 1997:

Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A DVD release with only the SE or a DVD release with both cuts??

From 2011:

Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A Blu-ray release with only the SE or a Blu-ray release with both cuts??

It’s always made market sense. It’s made market sense for twenty years. But it makes a little less sense every year, as fewer people even remember the Star Wars trilogy. What’s stopping it has nothing to do with profitability. It’s deference to Lucas’ ego.

Besides they did a half-assed run at the dual DVD release with the GOUT’s DVD SE/Laserdisc OOT set. The relative unpopularity of that set will likely sabotage the projected sales numbers should this ever reach the beancounter stage, because nobody will admit they did a crap job.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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George isn’t going to last forever, and while Kathleen Kennedy owes him her entire career and is forever in his pocket, she’s probably going to be gone too with time. What she must have like 50 years left in her? Have some patience, jeez. Set your clocks for 2070 you guys, that’s the date. You just gotta wait, it’s definitely coming. They’re just holding out on us for the 80th anniversary. Maybe the 100th. I can’t believe anyone would think it won’t ever happen.

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I could see Criterion making it happen. They did lavish editions of Armageddon and The Rock, films released through Disney’s other studio divisions.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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crissrudd4554 said:

I’m honestly puzzled why some of you even ask why Disney would spend the money to restore the originals while at the same time neglecting to realize that a restored OUT is likely gonna be packaged as an extra to the SE anyways. However as long as the originals are presented in proper quality I’m sure the majority of us would be fine with it.

Because it’s a realistic point of view. There’s really no sense in restoring the OUT if they already have a 4k scan of the SEs ready to go. The public will go crazy for a 4k release, even if it is just the SEs.

“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017

MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707

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SilverWook said:

I could see Criterion making it happen. They did lavish editions of Armageddon and The Rock, films released through Disney’s other studio divisions.

There was also a Criterion of Kagemusha, a movie released by Fox.

I don’t see the Criterion scenario ever happening, though. We’ve been dreaming about that ever since the GOUT and it just seem unrealistic that one of the most popular movie franchises ever wouldn’t be handled directly by its copyright holder.

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DrDre said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Ok here’s how it goes. From the concensus I’ve seen it appears that a good majority of the Star Wars fans who own the current BD sets are fine with them as is. So a simple 4K restoration of the same SE is likely not gonna be enough of a good selling point to sell the same version again. So what do they do?? Restore the original cuts to be included WITH the 4K restored SE.

Seriously guys. Quit being morons. Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A 4K release with only the SE or a 4K release with both cuts?? One cut caters to only a specific market while more than one cut caters to multiple markets.

Case and point. How many people do you actually suspect petitioned to have all those cuts of Blade Runner released together?? Compared to Star Wars probably little to nothing. Did it stop Ridley Scott from remastering those cuts and releasing them together?? Nope. Another example is how a few years ago Kino released a cut of the silent film Metropolis with restored footage not seen since the original release. Compared to Star Wars who do you think really gave a crap about that?? Nonetheless did it prevent them from restoring and releasing it?? Don’t think so.

I’m honestly puzzled why some of you even ask why Disney would spend the money to restore the originals while at the same time neglecting to realize that a restored OUT is likely gonna be packaged as an extra to the SE anyways. However as long as the originals are presented in proper quality I’m sure the majority of us would be fine with it.

Until Lucasfilm/Disney gives a direct response on the matter the speculation resumes as far as where I stand. And no the Kathleen Kennedy interview does not count.

Are YOU serious? Most Star Wars fans have bought pretty every release of Star Wars since the first home video version was released in the early 1980s. All they needed to do, was claim it’s been remastered, or add a few extras. So, given that reality, what makes you believe this trend will suddenly stop with a 4K release? If they release a 4K version with a few new extras, the damn thing will sell like crazy, like all Star Wars releases have, with or without the OOT.

I didn’t say it would stop. My point was having both cuts would increase the profitability of the next release even if it’s by a slight margin. Again one caters to one market, the other more than one.

Anyone here who just wants to run the same old blah blah ‘they’re not gonna spend the money’ as if to shut down all hopes of it ever happening when they have no more knowledge of the subject than those continuing to speculate must really not want the OUT in the end.

And no I don’t wanna hear that ‘well I used to work in marketing and’ blah blah. Did you work for Lucasfilm’s or Disney’s marketing?? No?? Didn’t think so.

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Didn’t know they had ever done any Fox titles.

It all depends on how much Disney/Lucasfilm cares about the OOT. If they don’t see a niche label release competing with their own SE trilogy releases, they might be okay with it. There were standard Laserdiscs and DVD’s of Armageddon and The Rock concurrent with the Criterion releases.
Criterion doesn’t really advertise beyond it’s devoted fanbase, and you don’t see their titles for sale at Walmart.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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This whole situation reminds me of the Shakespeare example. His works were never published in his lifetime, and decades later, after his death, associates and interested people had to cobble together what they could remember or find in order to recreate the plays.

There were frauds, fakes, things that probably resembled the real deal, and the like. As time passed, history tended to prefer one version over another, and I think that will be the case with these films as well. The commercial exploitation will expire, loyalties will die out, nostalgia and remembrances will be forgotten, and the craftsmanship will be judged on merit alone.

That is to say, the horrible editing mistakes in the SEs will eventually be eliminated, as long as people continue to preserve the original versions of the films in some way, shape, or form.

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Mocata said:

George isn’t going to last forever… I can’t believe anyone would think it won’t ever happen.

The second I can buy a new copy of the Narnia series numbered in the correct order, I’ll start entertaining the possibility. But C.S. Lewis has been dead for 50 years, and fans still can’t get what they want (although they are admittedly way easier to despecialize, and decades-old correctly-numbered versions aren’t inferior in any way, so the analogy only goes so far). Publishers and studios may fight authorial control tooth and nail in the production stage, but once they have a hit on their hands, they are incredibly deferential to the perceived desires of the perceived creator. C.S. Lewis made a comment in a private letter humoring an enthusiastic fan and that had an impact 50 years past his death (and counting). Why would an unwavering, obnoxiously loud public 20-year (and counting) campaign by Lucas and his sycophants have less impact?

It will happen, though. When the copyright expires and anyone is free to do it–and not a second earlier.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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crissrudd4554 said:

DrDre said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Ok here’s how it goes. From the concensus I’ve seen it appears that a good majority of the Star Wars fans who own the current BD sets are fine with them as is. So a simple 4K restoration of the same SE is likely not gonna be enough of a good selling point to sell the same version again. So what do they do?? Restore the original cuts to be included WITH the 4K restored SE.

Seriously guys. Quit being morons. Theoretically speaking what sounds like it’ll profit more even if by a fraction?? A 4K release with only the SE or a 4K release with both cuts?? One cut caters to only a specific market while more than one cut caters to multiple markets.

Case and point. How many people do you actually suspect petitioned to have all those cuts of Blade Runner released together?? Compared to Star Wars probably little to nothing. Did it stop Ridley Scott from remastering those cuts and releasing them together?? Nope. Another example is how a few years ago Kino released a cut of the silent film Metropolis with restored footage not seen since the original release. Compared to Star Wars who do you think really gave a crap about that?? Nonetheless did it prevent them from restoring and releasing it?? Don’t think so.

I’m honestly puzzled why some of you even ask why Disney would spend the money to restore the originals while at the same time neglecting to realize that a restored OUT is likely gonna be packaged as an extra to the SE anyways. However as long as the originals are presented in proper quality I’m sure the majority of us would be fine with it.

Until Lucasfilm/Disney gives a direct response on the matter the speculation resumes as far as where I stand. And no the Kathleen Kennedy interview does not count.

Are YOU serious? Most Star Wars fans have bought pretty every release of Star Wars since the first home video version was released in the early 1980s. All they needed to do, was claim it’s been remastered, or add a few extras. So, given that reality, what makes you believe this trend will suddenly stop with a 4K release? If they release a 4K version with a few new extras, the damn thing will sell like crazy, like all Star Wars releases have, with or without the OOT.

Anyone here who just wants to run the same old blah blah ‘they’re not gonna spend the money’ as if to shut down all hopes of it ever happening when they have no more knowledge of the subject than those continuing to speculate must really not want the OUT in the end.

Give me a break, I want it just as much as anyone else, but I’m not going to get my hopes up anymore. I’ve waited for a long time and have been left gravely disappointed. Excuse me for being skeptical.

“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017

MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707

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JawsTDS said:

…I’ve waited for a long time and have been left gravely disappointing. Excuse me…

Dude, don’t be so hard on yourself.
I think you’re A-Ok!

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SilverWook said:

Didn’t know they had ever done any Fox titles.

It all depends on how much Disney/Lucasfilm cares about the OOT. If they don’t see a niche label release competing with their own SE trilogy releases, they might be okay with it. There were standard Laserdiscs and DVD’s of Armageddon and The Rock concurrent with the Criterion releases.
Criterion doesn’t really advertise beyond it’s devoted fanbase, and you don’t see their titles for sale at Walmart.

A downside I can think of, if it ever came to that, is we would have to kiss any chance of seeing the theatrical prequels goodbye.