The Clone Wars, OS, and his onscreen lightsaber collection all show him to be quite the "Jedi killer". I don't doubt that the "overall battle" was difficult for him, since it had to be so. I'm just saying that it could have been choreographed better. If he's got four lightsabers, then he should use four lightsabers as much as possible. Otherwise, there's no real advantage.
I think the crucial difference is, Ray Park was better trained at using and choreographing a double-ended lightsaber (i.e. bo staff), than ILM was with four. The TPM duel is extremely believeable and enthralling because you can see that Maul is going all out on Qui-gon and Obi-wan. In point of fact, despite his actual death, despite being two-on-one, he did kill one Jedi, and had the other cold.
Greivous simply didn't come across as the killing machine he was supposed to be.
"he only needed to stress the capability of the dark side to prevent death and prolong life, not create it."
While I understand where you at getting at, I must tell you now that I see the "Dark Side" of the Force simply as misuse of the Force. The Force is the Force, and as Palpatine stated, the Jedi and Sith are very similar - they all use all the same powers. The lone exception being becoming "One with the Force", though for the obvious reason that the Sith work against the Force.
Secondly, as ROTS and the OT clearly show, this power was never used. Even Yoda says "Strong am I in the Force, but not that strong". This is something that is not possible. Therefore, this was another lie by Palpatine to get Anakin to do his bidding. In fact, Palps tells Anakin that he was taught this power, and then after Anakin becomes Vader, he tells Vader that, together, they will learn how to do it.
Quote
Palp: "Unfortunately, he told his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."
Anakin: "Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her.
Palp: "She'd live, through the power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm know we can discover the secret."
That, right there, tells you that he can't do it, so to turn around and claim that Palpatine used this power to create Anakin flies in the face of logic - though this doesn't seem to stop people who simply don't like the concept of a "Virgin birth" for whatever reason.
Looking over that scene again, it occured to me: I wonder if Lucas is making a veiled reference to what happened to Qui-gon. There's still no real indication that Plagueis was Palpatine's master, so he apparently doesn't have first-hand knowledge, but what if somone prior to Qui-gon had become one with the Force as well, and this is the "power" that Palpatine aludes to, and is actually seeking? That makes much more sense (though if it is the case, Lucas did a poor job of explaining that, and leaving out Qui-gon is made even that much more dumber.)
"I find it telling that the "rebellious" Jedi whom the council held down due to his defiance was the first to achieve enlightenment and maintain consciousness after his death. To paraphrase Obi-Wan, "If you just did what you were told, you'd be on the Council." Maybe Qui-Gonn didn't give two shits about being on the Council. Perhaps he cared more about the Force and the Jedi way of life than he did about attaining power."
I believe that as well. Yoda's tune changes considerably between the PT and the OT.
Quote
OBI-WAN : I have a bad feeling about this.
QUI-GON : I don't sense anything.
OBI-WAN : It's not about the mission, Master, it's somethging...elsewhere...elusive.
QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now
where it belongs.
OBI-WAN : Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...
QUI-GON : .....but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, my young
Yoda: This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away...to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing.
"I have also long thought and totally agree with the idea that the prophecy of bringing balance to the force meant the eventual destruction of the Jedi order and the two vs. two scenario (Yoda/Ben vs. Palpatine/Vader). In the minds of the Jedi, bringing balance meant the destruction of the Sith, which is what made them so arrogant. That's not balance, and an objective observer would not see it as such. Again, Lucas bashed us over the head when he had Yoda mention the possibility that the prophecy may have been misread."
Do you think "Balance" was also brought about by the destruction of Alderaan as well? Do you think "Balance" was brought about by Anakin requiring a walking lung? Not every event that led up the the fulfillment of the Prophecy needed to be required as part of the Prophecy. Not to mention that the "two vs. two scenario (Yoda/Ben vs. Palpatine/Vader)" always convenientally ignores Luke. If, as you say, Yoda and Obi-wan have learned their lesson by the OT, then what has happened to Balance, then? Does Balance waver as Obi-wan and Yoda die? Keep in mind, also, that Obi-wan and Yoda both eventually become one with the Force, so even if one were to think that their belief structure is still too screwed up to absolve them, the Force apparently believes otherwise.
"Thankfully, my ability to ignore plot holes and inconsistencies over a 40-year arc is strong. I don't take this as seriously as some fans, but it's fun to debate."
Agreed. I don't mind people supporting the PT and bashing the OT, as long as it is well debated. I've carried opposing arguments simultaneously in different threads at TFn many times. Those were the days.....
" Although they were exellent points Jay, it seems that Lucas is writing all this stuff as he goes along."
As to the whole "Ghost" scenario: Obi-wan was originally supposed to have survived ANH (and Vader die.) "Yoda" had to be created after the fact because Lucas no longer had an old Jedi master to train Luke.
