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I like the Special Editions ..... minus some scenes — Page 2

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Here is an interesting post fform Amazon.com. I am not sure if this is legit, but still it could give us hope:



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39 of 47 people found the following review helpful:

A note from a Lucas employee, May 4, 2005
Reviewer: John - See all my reviews
I am tired of all the outcries over this boxset, so I'm going to give you all a bit of insight to what went on behind the curtain.

First of all, let me explain why Lucas released this set. Demand was very high, and DVDs were going to be phased out in the near future. He wanted to please the fans, and give them something to tide over with until the BD/HD-DVD set hits stores in 2007.

Long story short, we had a lot to do and a very short period of time to do it in. Most of our resources were busy with Episode III (both the release and the DVD for the film). We were strained to begin with. Add putting the entire star wars trilogy on DVD with only a little bit over a year to restore and master it, and you have a race against time.

We would have liked to re-color the lightsabers, re-color Jabba, spend more time on the audio/picture, and everything else we wanted to do, but WE HAD NO TIME TO DO IT.

In addition, we only had time to work on one version of the film. We had to choose: the originals, or the special editions. Lucas chose the SE. Lucas didn't want to shell out the millions, and divert time and resources to them when they would be released in 2007.

Yes everyone, the originals are coming to BD/HD-DVD. Seeing all this moaning and groaning makes us wonder if anything will please you guys. The film team is curious if this High-Def set will fill you with joy, or make you all whine further. Why? Because we are already having to make alterations to the film. The restoration is screwing with some key elements, so we are having to go back and manually insert some things. For example, the lightsabers. Yes, they will look like the ones from Episodes I-III, because the High-Def conversion/restoration downgraded the appearence. We had to fix it, and couldn't give it that "70's look" so we were forced to make the sabers look like the more modern ones seen in the prequels.

I'm sorry for all the pain this DVD set has caused some of you. Had we had more time, things would have been different. Now we have a substantial amount of time to work with. With this additional production time, we can now include everything (such as deleted scenes) in the BD/HD-DVD set that we could not include here. You will have your original films (HAN SHOOTS FIRST) and a new directors cut (with more changes) in High Def very soon. Please be patient with us. We hope you can enjoy this set while we work to blow you away with our finished product in 2007. Thank You.

EDIT: It seems some people are paying no attention to my words, but thats ok...

Continue to make an outcry over the set if you want. It will convince Lucas further that the originals will sell (he feels everyone will prefer the DX over the originals). So go ahead and bash us if you want, but try to be somewhat respectful about it? Thanks again.

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So, what does everyone think?
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I think it is someone just trying to spread more rumors. Most of what he said has been explicitly denied by Lucasfilm, of course, that ain't saying much either.

It would be awesome if what he said were true. I didn't think that HD-DVD or Blu-Ray technology had become consumer-level affordable yet. Am I wrong? If not, and what that guy said was true, what makes Lucasfilm think that HD-DVD is going to become the new standard therefore ensuring sales of the next boxset?
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I find that post difficult to believe.
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Several of Darth Simons points match my own. I too feel that cleaning up matte lines and removing old effects are two different scenes. Compare the battle of Endor with the battle of Yavin. Endor's pretty much the same, minus matte lines, but still garbage matte, plus new sound effects(the first ship destroyed by the DSII sounds different). Yavin on the other hand bares little resemblence in parts. In it, whole sequences are redone.

To work from Bossk's POV, I do agree on the points of preserving the methods. Let's focus not on visible matte lines but invisible ones for a sec. What's more impressive - a perfect matte done by PC, or one by hand? I think that's an easy one. Whenever I watch the Falcon escape the DSII, I'm in awe. Knowing that the tunnel is crafed by hand at remarkable detail, with the fire deftly inserted and augmented, destroying a TIE, with flames engulfing the cockpit setpiece, and the model shooting out of the fire, pulling a trail of flame with absolutly nothing so much as a matte line or garbage matte to spoil the illusion, and knowing that it's all done by hand and camera tricks is far more exciting, and inspiring than knowing that they took the elements and had a PC photoshop it together. Even I could do that. It's just not the same as having a pc do it for you. I'm not knocking digital FX, if done right(usually model aided) they can do great things. There's just a sense of wonder in old school methods. Knowing that the AT-ATs were done by hand for each frame yet remained consistent is far cooler than knowing all the AT-PT's have the gear movement memorized by a pc, and reused in each shot.

I think one factor people forget is feel. It's not just a matter of looking right, but how the scene works and the impression it gives. Take Cloud City. When I watch the OT, the place feels huge. The towers seem so massive that there are plenty of interior hallways. With windows everywhere, they feel thin. It's like they're so small, there's no interior hallways. Plue the new windows are distracting. Instead of concentrating on Lando and Han's conversation, I find myself looking at an elevator. Even when watching the OT, I still tend to look to the wall behind Leia as Lando pulls her to the exit. Why? Becuase their was a busy window there in the SE, and peoples' eyes tend to drift right. So instead of focusing on the action, I'm looking at a distant ship that has nothing to do with anything. That's not enhancing, that's diverting. I won't even get into the fact that the windows revert back to normal in subsequent scenes.

*(1) Cleaning - Replacing models with CGI is equivalent to cleaning up the movie & erasing the squares from around the models. Same scene, but now it looks real, instead of fake.*

Not in the slightest. How can you say that outright redoing a scene is the same as touching it up? As far as realism, that's subjective. I found the CGI BoY far less real than the old. All the ships were oversaturated in color. Each one had the same marking on the wings, and the same rust patterns and R2 units. Compare that to the original in which all ship onscreen are unique, represented by a different model. They aren't the same scene either. Take the start of Red Leader's run. The original had two X-wings enter followed by a shot of a third going in. They are at a distance from the camera. The preceeding shot to this is of Luke turning his head to look out side of the cockpit. In the original, this gives me the impression that we are seeing Luke's POV. Not in the SE however. The new shot has all three X-wings side by side right by the camera. There's no way this is the same shot. The feel is different, hence the scene is different. If they were to reshot the scenes with different actors performing the same lines the same way, would you consider it as the same scene? It's not just the content of the scene that matters, but the elements that make it up.

*(2) Audio - I have no more desire to hear the original "flat" 2-channel stereo than I want to see fake-looking models w/ black squares around them. Go ahead and remix it for 5.1 surround.*

I have no desire to hear a hollow redo of a stereo source. It often sounds miserable. My only complaint on the 1776 DVD was the sound. It was good at the end, but the beginning was very hollow. Having lived with 5.1 most of my life, I can enjoy films that weren't made with it without it. It's another part of the feel. Surround my be cool, but it can change so much. Now, I don't really mind if the original is intact, or if the 5.1 is the same as some films old dolby surround, but if it's not included, it can suck quite a bit. Take the Manga End of Eva release. The director specifically filmed it in stereo as he didn't care for surround. Not only was the US release remixed(which I hear in more upmixed then anything, with the english version sporting new Sound FX) in Dolby EX, and DTS ES, but the provided stereo was a remix using the 6.1 tracks. If that's not a slap in the face, I don't know what is. At least the sub tape sounds good. Even the japanese remaster had the original stereo IIRC, as well as it's own properly remixed 5.1. I've heard a rip of the japanese, it blows the US out of the water despite the loss of a channel.

Does having sounds going everwhere really improve the film? I remember the theater showing ESB SE, where as the x-wing rose from the swamp, you heard tons of dripping water. I found it cool at the time, but it really adds nothing, just more distraction from what I should be focusing on(Yoda's use of the Force).

*(3) Subtraction - I hate subtraction. I don't like that Lucas took away songs that are burned into my skull (yub-nub & the original song in Jabba's Lair). It's like giving candy to a kid, and then taking it away. MEAN, and the part of the SE I don't like.*

Might I ask how that's any different from changing the BoY? After all, stuff is lost to put in the new. This very arguement practically contradicts most of your statements. So it's ok to "improve" SFX, but not ok to change a song for a new one? About the only way this works is if you mean that you hate it when he replaces something you like(Ewok Celebration) with something you don't (Victory Celebration). There's no subtraction here, merely substitution. So how is replacing a song different from replacing FX in any way other than, "I don't like what replaced it". Some will argue that the new song is better, wouldn't that be "fixing" it? I don't like what they replaced the BoY with. Is that any different from you not liking the new song? That just solidifies the idea that the new CGI as an improvment is an opinion. One you are entitled to, sure, but one nonetheless. "I don't like that Lucas took away *things* that are burned into my skull" can pretty much sum up everyones' arguement on why they prefer the SE. Its imprinting, plain and simple.

*(4) Changes - The added creatures wandering through Mos Eisley don't change the flow of the scene. We still have Luke & Obi-Wan asking for directions, same as always. The good stuff is still there.*

Yet it's covered up. The focus is now Mos Eisley, not Luke and Ben. Look at the scene where Ben plays with the troopers mind. At the beginning, we have a dinosuar(on a desert planet none the less!) block our view of them. While thinking, "oh no, how will they pass", you're interrupted with that. Then, while we should be tense with this scene, and amazed by Ben's skill, we instead get a droid that is beeping(!) and darting around the trooper. So now we're looking at a stupid droid instead of being tense. Yeah, the good stuffs there, but it's not the focus. ME went from spooky small town, to bustling metropolis in the kiddle of nowhere. It doesn't just change the flow of the scene, it destroys it.

(5) Adding - The toppling emperor's statue and parties on distant worlds are added scenes. We still see Luk


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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As much as I would love to believe that the post that McCartneyFan pulled from Amazon is actually from an LFLer with inside knowledge, I just don't believe it. With all the web trolling that LFL does to maintain secrecy and force people to pull images from unreleased films, etc., I doubt he would let someone "from the inside" get away with posting that information. He has ways of finding out who says what and that "insider" would likely not be an employee anymore.

It is a nice thought, though. One can definitely hope.
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I have to agree with bossk on that above amazon post.

in addition, the main problem i had is this line

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First of all, let me explain why Lucas released this set. Demand was very high, and DVDs were going to be phased out in the near future. He wanted to please the fans, and give them something to tide over with until the BD/HD-DVD set hits stores in 2007.


can i be so bold to call bullshit on this one? I dont even think Lucas is so arrogant to assume that he can predict what the next media format is going to be. Plus, does this mean that we are getting a BD AND HD-DVD set in 2007? or does this 'insider' know something about the current format war between these to media types that he can predict that one or both will succeed and become the next format in less than 2 years. I think most people will agree that DVD is phasing out VHS but when something is phased out its not an instant change. VHS versions of movies are still released. Some people still only have VCRs suprising as that may sound to some. So what makes you think that in less than 2 years a DVD release of a movie will be pretty much obsolete. Even if there are BD/HD-DVD players on the consumer market in 2 years, more people are gonna have regular DVD players than the new BD/HD-DVD players and a DVD release of any movie that is released to BD/HD-DVD is gonna be required if they want to turn any profit on it, and lets face it, thats the name of the game here as is even mentioned in our mysterious insider's post.

This post also contradicts comments made by lucas at CIII about the 2007 release. (believe he basically said its dvd and no further changes are going to be made). And if Lucas is going to jump on this new format so quickly with a SW release in it, why didnt it do the same when dvd first came out? if it was because they didnt think dvd would make it why are they so sure that BD and/or HD-DVD will make it?

-Darth Simon

*note* references to Lucas are meant as a more global LucasFilm, and not necessarily specifically to George Lucas himself.
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Speaking of future formats.

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Blu-ray and HD-DVD Join Forces
Sony and Toshiba to team up on a new, unified next-gen format. Where does PS3 fit in?
by Matt Casamassina

April 21, 2005 - According to a report by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, the next-generation format war may be over before it ever starts. The Japanese newspaper on Thursday published news that Sony and Toshiba are expected to make an announcement later this month that they have abandoned the Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats respectively and are working on a new medium that will bring together both standards.

Sony, a leading member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, announced last year that it would include a Blu-ray drive in its forthcoming next-generation console, PlayStation 3. More than 100 companies, including Apple, Panasonic, HP, and Pioneer, support Blu-ray, which promises up to 50 gigabytes of storage on a single disc side. Toshiba leads the opposing format, HD-DVD.

While it is commonly accepted that Blu-ray discs offer more storage space than HD-DVDs, electronics companies and Hollywood studios have remained divided over the two formats due in large to the manufacturing processes. In short, the DVD infrastructures already in place would serve HD-DVD manufacturers. However, costly new facilities and operations would need to be created in order to support the Blu-ray format.

Sony and Toshiba have remained in negotiations on the subject for weeks, with key company executives from each camp dropping hints that a unified standard would be optimal.

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun reports that, having reached an agreement that a new, unified standard would be the best thing for the industry; Sony and Toshiba are now in the process of designing the new standard, which seeks to take the strengths from each medium and combine them.

Sony has reportedly suggested using Blu-ray's disc structure and HD-DVD's software technology while Toshiba has suggested keeping HD-DVD's disc structure and applying Sony's multi-layer data-recording technology.

The Japanese paper reports that both companies are eager to reach an agreement in order to avoid the format wars that initially confused consumers and hindered both the VHS and DVD eras. The two electronics giants have already briefed major Hollywood studios including Disney and AOL Time Warner on the idea of a new, unified standard, according to the paper.

The big question is, what does this news mean for PlayStation 3, which is scheduled to release sometime next year? The very probable answer is that the next-generation machine will drop Sony's announced Blu-ray drive in favor of hardware that instead plays this new, still-announced format compromise.


Apparently this "insider" doesn't follow tech news very well. I don't follow it at all, and I still heard about this.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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yeah, i saw that and posted it over in off topic (there used to be a blu ray vs hd-dvd topic there) i thought about posting it here in response to that as well, but felt i would be double posting, so glad to see you posted it over here (cause i know some people dont read all the forums)

if you're intersted the source (for those skeptics, though i encourage people to check out sources) is ign, at least where i saw the article. dont have the link for it in front of me, but if you head over to the off topic its in the blu ray and hd-dvd thread i started over there. but klingon jedi posted the whole article so you wont get any more info over at ign.

Klingon_Jedi, i agree with the 'insider' not following tech news very well. He also apparently doesnt listen to what Lucas himself says because he contridicts comments Lucas made regarding a 2007 release during Celebration III, again not sure where a link to that article is, but i think somone posted it over in general star wars discussion.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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besides how Lucas release a trilogy on HD-DVD in 2007 that according to him no longer exists?
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I got the link from Doom9.net myself. It's still two years off, but who knows. It was most likely some guy messing with the fans out of annoyance.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I figured it might not be legit and you guys are probably right about it being someone to stir up rumors. I was not trying to add any rumors but figured that what I saw might be of interetest. Hence my putting at the beginning of the message that I was not sure if it was legit. It would be great if this were true, but still it might be smoke and mirrors from a 13 year old kid messing around, for all I know.
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Originally posted by: electrictroy
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Originally posted by: Darth Simonharrison ford stepping on Jabba's tail was never supposed to be in the movie from the start.
Nit-picky much? Okay, not "stepping", but Ford WAS talking to Jabba. The original plan was to use a Puppet of Jabba, but it didn't look right, so Lucas dropped the scene. NOT because he didn't like the scene, but because he was limited by technology.

I'm glad he used modern technology to finally do that Ford-Jabba scene, the way he originally wanted.



Also, what do you mean the original didn't need fixing? I already pointed out the black matting squares around all the ships. Even in the 1980s when I was a kid, I thought that looked dumb. That's at least ONE thing that needed to be fixed.

troy


Thats just what Lucas claims, and what Lucas whores use as a mantra.
I can't see no damn matte lines, even today. Its hardly bloody noticeable!

///

Fine, mister Lucas, while you're at it why dont you replace Lando with will smith?
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To be far Kam, there were some really bad mattes and a lot of noticable garbage mattes(which are STILL there). The Rancor comes to mind. Ironically, it wasn't until the second time that that one was removed.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I heard that the rancor will be computer generated for the 3D version of ROTJ.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Weary be you of such rumors. Tarkin was to be CGI in ROTS, as well as Ben's beard in AOTC. Trust them, do not.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.