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ROTS: The Child Birth Scene and Sidious Motives? SPOILERS

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Did she die from grief, or was it actual complications from the birth?

Why tell Darth Vader he killed her, what was Dark Lord Sidious’ motives, here?

Dark Lord Sidious explained that his teacher was so strong with the dark side of the force, he had the ability to foresee and protect his loved ones from that danger. Script wise and from Sidious’ point of view, why not just tell Darth Vader she died in child birth, not the whole greif thing, or that he had killed her. It seems he would of had more anger towards Obi-wan (and the good side of the force) for interfereing and preventing him from saving her life. The new Darth would of felt more remorse, helplessness and anger not being able to protect her with his new sith powers. It would of further strengthened his belief that the dark side of the force was stronger and could of prevented her death, of course this is what Dark Lord Sidious convinced him of.

Maybe it was done the way it was to prove that the dark side leads to anger, anger that resulted in the love of his life being killed by his own hands, which ultimately was the reason he went back to the good side of the force. He realized his choice caused her death?

Anyone have opinions?

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Allowing him to believe HE was that cause of her death fuels his emotions, his anger and his despair. His mother's death pushed him closer to the Dark Side, as it made him feel helpless. Making him believe he was to blame makes it that much worse.

She died, as they said, because she lacked the will to live. Everything she believed in, everything she loved was now dead. The Republic, Anakin. All were lost. The twins existed, but also existed as reminders of what had happened. She was heartbroken, and had nothing to live for. She just gave up.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Wouldn't that make you depsise the dark side that much more? If accepting the dark side of the force allowed his anger to swell so much that he killed the love of his life, why would he continue down that path? Did the dark side cloud his mind that much that he didn't realize what he was doing?

I don't know if I like that. It makes it seem like he has no control, that Darth Vader is a mindless entity controlled only by the dark side, unable to have any control over his own thoughts and emotions.
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" Wouldn't that make you depsise the dark side that much more? If accepting the dark side of the force allowed his anger to swell so much that he killed the love of his life, why would he continue down that path? Did the dark side cloud his mind that much that he didn't realize what he was doing?"

Agreed, but consider this: At that point, the Dark Side was all he had left. If he didn't stay with Palpatine, who is now controlling the galaxy, where is he to go? He's lost all of his family and friends.

Still, Anakin's turn is weak in ROTS.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Seiji
Wouldn't that make you depsise the dark side that much more? If accepting the dark side of the force allowed his anger to swell so much that he killed the love of his life, why would he continue down that path? Did the dark side cloud his mind that much that he didn't realize what he was doing?

I don't know if I like that. It makes it seem like he has no control, that Darth Vader is a mindless entity controlled only by the dark side, unable to have any control over his own thoughts and emotions.



From what I'm sure most will tell you is about as accurate and explanation you can get:
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Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Yet Luke and Anakin proved Yoda wrong.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Did Luke prove Yoda wrong? We will never know. Remember, Anakin first went down the path of darkness in the Episode II and had Episode III to reveal himself. Luke's choices were made in ROTJ, and we are given 20 minutes to decide if he has caught himself for good, or if forever will he be controlled by his urges.

Anakin fulfilled his destiny, dark side or not. He was to bring balance to the Force, whether it be as a Jedi or a Sith.

But yes, I guess you could be right.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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I'm only wrong if you don't think ROTJ had a happy ending. How could you think that with all those ewoks rejoicing and Lando clapping???

Besides, that was kinda the whole point - Luke was right about his father all along.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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How come when the babies were born Vader and Sidious did not feel a huge disturbance in the force?
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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1- If there ever was a scene with Yoda and Qui-Gon, why was it cut? Perhaps Liam Neeson didn't do the voice over and they cut it? If they did, the whole explanation of the Jedi spirits was not given to the audience!

2- Also, the explanation of why a Jedi disapear and some don't is not clear (perhaps if you know how to mantain your consciousness after death, you can also make yourself disapear).

3- How did the clones know about Order 66, and why did they obey? Hypnosis? They were all trained in kamino to do that? Didn't the Kamino cloners find weird that a Jedi went there to ask for clones that would eventually KILL the Jedis? Or maybe Sifo Dias was not the one there, but how about when Obi Wan was in Kamino?

4- And yes, the whole thing about the babies. Didn't Vader/Palpatine sense anything? Vader knew he would have a child, he never bothered to look for it in Tatooine? Perhaps while visiting his stepbrother, Owen Lars...? Or visiting his mother's grave, right NEXT to it?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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"How did the clones know about Order 66, and why did they obey? Hypnosis? They were all trained in kamino to do that? Didn't the Kamino cloners find weird that a Jedi went there to ask for clones that would eventually KILL the Jedis? Or maybe Sifo Dias was not the one there, but how about when Obi Wan was in Kamino?"

The order, itself, didn't have to be specifically programmed into the clone troopers. They were bred to be compliant to the Republic, and Palps is the head of the Republic. He need only give the details to the clone commanders, which would be passed down to the troops, under the proviso that no details of the order be told to anyone. The clonetroopers have no choice but to comply.

"How come when the babies were born Vader and Sidious did not feel a huge disturbance in the force?"

Probably the same reason why none was apparently felt when Anakin was born. Otherwise, he would have been found a lot sooner.

Besides, Palps didn't sense Luke until he started using the Force in earnest. This, along with the fact that Vader sensed Luke (actually Obi-wan, I believe) in the trench, and Luke used it to destroy the DS were all pretty big hints in and of themselves.

"Didn't Vader/Palpatine sense anything? Vader knew he would have a child, he never bothered to look for it in Tatooine? Perhaps while visiting his stepbrother, Owen Lars...? Or visiting his mother's grave, right NEXT to it?"

Watch Padme's funeral procession. She is made to look like she is still pregnant. Force sensing is nowhere as distinct as you guys make it out to be.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
1- If there ever was a scene with Yoda and Qui-Gon, why was it cut? Perhaps Liam Neeson didn't do the voice over and they cut it? If they did, the whole explanation of the Jedi spirits was not given to the audience!

2- Also, the explanation of why a Jedi disapear and some don't is not clear (perhaps if you know how to mantain your consciousness after death, you can also make yourself disapear).


The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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and rather than add that in.... we get a stupid lizard for 3 more minutes....
or we get that absolutly pointless Grievous battle... which took up at least 10 - 15 minutes....

bahh...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Agreed. The whole opening battle (and stupid re-entry) could have easily been trimmed down to make room for this. *sigh*

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I don't think it was a time issue that it was removed, it was more of a "we've gotten through the climactic battle, we must end it soon or people will feel it is anti-climactic' See: Return of the King.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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as anti climatic as ROTK was... it was a far better ending with all of that in it....
hell your telling me they couldnt have fit in a quick 2 minute scene when Yoda tells Obi Wan that stuff on the Rebel Blockade Runner....
for sure they could have...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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I laughed at the ending of ROTK. The first time you see it, it's ok, but if you watch it again, you're just like "Jesus, end the damn thing already" We aren't children, we don't have to know how EVERYONE ends up. I expected to see an ORC walking back to his home, kissing his kids on the head and then sitting down to eat as we pan out. Some of the characters had like 2 seperate endings, or 2 times where their character should have stopped.

I agree, it could have been included. I wouldn't have had a problem with it. And I certainly wish Qui-Gon was in it, as he is my favorite Jedi. However, I can see why it was left out, as you want the audiences emotions to still be jarred from the ending of the battle, the raw emotion of the child birth, the stun of Vader's birth, and the Twins' being split. You kinda want to overload the audience at the end as quickly as possible.

I mean, ANH ends this way, ESB ends this way, with just a quick ending after the climax.

But yes, I would have liked the Qui-Gon and Dagobah scenes left in, but as I've held all along, I see far superior Special Editions of these three films being released at some point. A CGI Yoda, reinserted deleted scenes and a few CGI things touched up to make the films 'archival' as he likes to put it.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi"Agreed, but consider this: At that point, the Dark Side was all he had left. If he didn't stay with Palpatine, who is now controlling the galaxy, where is he to go? He's lost all of his family and friends.

Still, Anakin's turn is weak in ROTS.



Hmmm. I didn't think about that, his choices were to have power through out the gallaxy, or just wander the gallaxy as powerless freak full of sorrow. Having his new place of power would maybe at least balanced his sorrow. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation, makes sense.

I guess my opinion of how it should of been is just another Star Wars geek's opinion, unless its flawed somehow. I'm just stuck on my idea of how it should of been, but with the prequels you have to think everything out and how it would affect the future. In my teen years, my most obessed Star Wars years, I'd be able to hang ... but now that I'm older I just don't have the strength.

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Dark Lord Sidious explained that his teacher was so strong with the dark side of the force, he had the ability to foresee and protect his loved ones from that danger. Script wise and from Sidious' point of view, why not just tell Darth Vader she died in child birth, not the whole greif thing, or that he had killed her. It seems he would of had more anger towards Obi-wan (and the good side of the force) for interfereing and preventing him from saving her life. The new Darth would of felt more remorse, helplessness and anger not being able to protect her with his new sith powers. It would of further strengthened his belief that the dark side of the force was stronger and could of prevented her death, of course this is what Dark Lord Sidious convinced him of.


So what do you think of it?

Would it create any plot holes or inconsistency?

I still don't like how she died or Sidious telling Darth Vader that he killed her. Maybe you can help me stop obsessing over this part.

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Agreed. The whole opening battle (and stupid re-entry) could have easily been trimmed down to make room for this. *sigh*


It still can be

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I was hoping to see IG88 in ROTS!

And Order 66 transforming the Clone Troopers into Storm Troopers was Cool.

I would have never guessed "Eye Patch Guy" was working for the sith?!¿ but it works. IMO.


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"Eye Patch Guy"? Are you talking about Padme's security guard, Captain Typho? He wasn't working for the Sith. Atleast I never got that impression. Unless you're talking about someone else...

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Originally posted by: InfoDroid
"Eye Patch Guy"? Are you talking about Padme's security guard, Captain Typho? He wasn't working for the Sith. Atleast I never got that impression. Unless you're talking about someone else...


It wasn't Typho-- the troops were clones of Jango Fett. If you notice, Commander Cody and the troops and even the pilots all looked alike. I did notice, however, a few dudes who did not look like Jango. Perhaps the beginning of the volunteer Imperial Army?
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.
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"I'd be able to hang ... but now that I'm older I just don't have the strength. "

Or the length.

"It still can be "

Only if Qui-gon is one of the deleted scenes.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"I'd be able to hang ... but now that I'm older I just don't have the strength. "

Or the length.


I never had the length to begin with, so that part I can deal with

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Hey, just tell the girls: "I can't hit bottom, but I can bang the hell out of the sides."

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>