Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 50

Lord Haseo said:

yotsuya said:

basically putting off resolving the story for the next writer and director rather than having an individual story installment

The film is about finding Luke and that is exactly what happened. The film isn’t about Luke speaking though I would have greatly preferred that he did speak.

My problem with the ending is that we have 6 movies in the saga that all have similar endings. The story wraps up - loose ends are left dangling in many cases when it is not the final trilogy installment. In TFA, it ends with what is very much a beginning with a hell of a lot of lose ends brought up in the last scene (is Luke going to train Rey, is he her father, is he going to come back to the Resistance and help out, is he going to say anything…) The movie was not about Luke, it was about the map to Luke. They found it and the movie should have ended when the Falcon left to find him. That would fit with the 6 other movies. This passes the buck. If Luke was supposed to be found, the scene should have been longer and Luke should have agreed to come back like the opening Crawl said Leia wanted. The last scene postoned the true resolution of the story until the next movie. Abrams made a typical for him decision and as always, it was the wrong one. The man can’t write a decent ending. He’s never managed it yet.

SilverWook said:

It’s a cliffhanger ending. And ESB was by no means wrapped up at the end. In fact, one criticism people had back in 1980, (who were no doubt unfamiliar with the old movie serial structure Lucas was emulating) was that it was only “half” a movie.

It was the escape from Hoth and the training of Luke. Han was captured while Leia, Chewy, Threepio, and the Falcon escaped. Han’s capture and Luke’s defeat and everyone’s escape is an ending. Not a happy ending, but an ending. Lando and Chewy left to find Han. And everyone who saw it should have known that there would be another one. I did and I was 10. TFA has several huge plot holes and is lacking in exposition (which there usually is too much of) and it has an ending that it goes beyond. Every other installment has an ending that we pick up years later (TESB to ROTJ is the shortest at Lucas’s timeline of 1 year). TLJ will pick up moments after TFA. New is good, but some aspects of the formula should be kept. Abrams failed to do that and failed to craft an logical story that fit with the others. All of Lucas’s failings in the PT, Abrams addressed and did better. But he failed at all the things that Lucas was good at, such as writing the overall story and having a satisfying ending. I still like the Ending to TESB to this day. It was satisfying even with the threads left hanging. I do not find TFA’s ending satisfying.

lovelikewinter said:

Of all the movies, only Star Wars and Jedi had real endings.

TPM does as well.

If we ignore consistency with everything we’ve seen thus far about Force ghosts, I think it might be kind of cool to have them sort of oscillate between their young and old selves, not ever fully manifesting as either. I.E., for Obi-Wan, shoot McGregor, make a CGI Guinness, record audio of both McGregor and Stanton-as-Guinness, and then fade back and forth between them, never going more than 85% or so in one direction or the other, and probably favoring the older version just a bit. Sort of like how the TFA Force vision had both Guinness and McGregor, but also visually.

EDIT: I guess I had an old window that I hadn’t refreshed in a while open; I thought we were still talking about Force ghosts. Oh well, imagine this was a page ago.

SilverWook said:

It’s a cliffhanger ending. And ESB was by no means wrapped up at the end. In fact, one criticism people had back in 1980, (who were no doubt unfamiliar with the old movie serial structure Lucas was emulating) was that it was only “half” a movie.

Really shows the internet hasn’t changed people too too much.

yotsuya said:

SilverWook said:

It’s a cliffhanger ending. And ESB was by no means wrapped up at the end. In fact, one criticism people had back in 1980, (who were no doubt unfamiliar with the old movie serial structure Lucas was emulating) was that it was only “half” a movie.

It was the escape from Hoth and the training of Luke. Han was captured while Leia, Chewy, Threepio, and the Falcon escaped. Han’s capture and Luke’s defeat and everyone’s escape is an ending. Not a happy ending, but an ending. Lando and Chewy left to find Han. And everyone who saw it should have known that there would be another one. I did and I was 10.

But it’s never confirmed whether Luke and Vader were related (which is why it was confirmed in ROTJ) and we still don’t actually get Han back just like we don’t actually get Luke back at the end of TFA now that I think of it.

TFA has several huge plot holes and is lacking in exposition (which there usually is too much of) and it has an ending that it goes beyond.

I agree with the second statement.

Every other installment has an ending that we pick up years later (TESB to ROTJ is the shortest at Lucas’s timeline of 1 year). TLJ will pick up moments after TFA. New is good, but some aspects of the formula should be kept. Abrams failed to do that and failed to craft an logical story that fit with the others. All of Lucas’s failings in the PT, Abrams addressed and did better. But he failed at all the things that Lucas was good at, such as writing the overall story and having a satisfying ending. I still like the Ending to TESB to this day. It was satisfying even with the threads left hanging. I do not find TFA’s ending satisfying.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree as it’s a breath of fresh air being teased like that. I have spent many hours contemplating how Luke and Rey’s first encounter would play out and without that bold step on JJ’s part I wouldn’t have known I like to be denied something I yearn for for the sake of building anticipation. But I feel you though

SilverWook said:

Some alleged leaked footage has appeared on Youtube, but the fact Disney hasn’t squashed it yet, makes me doubt it’s authenticity.
Don’t click if you don’t want to see!
https://youtu.be/DcPGDVaCnzg

Duplicate link just in case it does go down.
https://youtu.be/dEsCQ1ihIIk

That shot of Adam looks extremely fake.

lovelikewinter said:

yotsuya said:

lovelikewinter said:

Of all the movies, only Star Wars and Jedi had real endings.

TPM does as well.

TPM was always meant as part one of three. Star Wars could have very easily been a standalone and Jedi was the last for a long time.

STAR WARS was made to be a standalone film as not one soul involved thought there would be a sequel.

It’s pretty funny that Lucas saw Vader as a completely disposable villain and didn’t anticipate his massive popularity at all.

I was originally going to post this in the 4K restoration thread, but I thought it might be more fun to speculate here:

I’m curious as to what the status of the Force ghosts in the new canon is. Do they fade away after some time like in the old EU? Are they still there to talk to Luke and co.? Will we see Luke talking to them without seeing them, leading the rest of the cast to believe he’s gone mad?

suspiciouscoffee said:

Well, we did hear Obi-Wan’s voice in TFA, so I assume his ghost is still around in some amount.

The forceback is still rather difficult to fit into this, as I don’t even think the times where the characters get visions of the future really compares well with it. For all we know it could even be a piecemeal construction from the thoughts of a sentient lightsabre (though where it got the information regarding the razing of Luke’s academy is a good question.)

flametitan said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Well, we did hear Obi-Wan’s voice in TFA, so I assume his ghost is still around in some amount.

The forceback is still rather difficult to fit into this, as I don’t even think the times where the characters get visions of the future really compares well with it. For all we know it could even be a piecemeal construction from the thoughts of a sentient lightsabre (though where it got the information regarding the razing of Luke’s academy is a good question.)

Maybe it’s actually the crystal that powers the lightsaber. Not so much alive but a resonant frequency that only someone force capable could be affected by or connected to. Yoda said, “The force surrounds us, binds us, luminous beings are we”.

Just a thought anyways.

I thought he was super dead, but now that you mention it I guess we never did see the body.