DrDre, thanks for your post. It’s nice to -discuss- Star Wars with Star Wars fans, even if we have differing opinions.
Really? ROTJ has a pretty weak story structure, primeraly preoccupied with tying up plot points of it’s superior predecessors.
I think it does that quite well. I know you were comparing it with TFA, but look at R1 for an example of what NOT to do during the first act of a movie. Side characters there were given very little depth, and the camera keeps moving from planet to planet at breakneck speed. Even though none of those places were important, they all got undeserved superimposed titles, like we were watching the travel channel or something.
Return of the Jedi’s first act (like TFA’s I might add), was competently conceived. They have to assemble the cast, rescue Han, and go on to bigger and better things. Tight. Smartly done. And it all takes place in one setting. That’s unity of composition.
The resolution of the final conflict to a significant degree rests on one of the weakest reveals (both in terms of story and execution) in the the saga, that of Leia being Luke’s sister.
I can’t really comment on this because I think it has to do with expectations. I don’t remember watching ROTJ without knowing the story–my first hundred viewings coming by the age of five. But I know some people who watched it in suspense and were fine with this plot point, and some who hate it, like you do. My guess is that people’s perception depended on what their expectation was, and it’s just not something I feel I can comment on any further.
Aside from a few impressive set peaces, it’s also visually rather uninspiring (not unlike TFA).
I have to disagree with you here. Before I get into some shots that I love, I just want to comment on the visual flow of the film. Small things like transitions are so important to making a film flow this good. Right after the sail barge explodes, skiff is flying across the desert, and then there is a wipe to another shot of the Falcon and Luke’s X-wing flying into outer space. That’s flow, but then there’s more. The two ships are in the same shot, one goes one way, and the other veers off in another direction, and that’s just a great shot. Then after some dialogue, Luke’s ship is flying across the screen…more flow…and we finally end up on a spectacular shot of the TIE fighters falling into formation in front of The Emperor’s grand arrival. These few minutes are basically forgettable as far as the storyline is concerned, but wow, are they wonderfully conceived and executed, and they significantly enhance the flow of the film.
Anyway, onto some shots: how about the wide shots between Luke and Yoda in the hut? Such good filmmaking to have them side by side with no cuts back and forth, for so long. What about the camera angle on Vader when Luke passes by on his way to Endor? Even after the scene is basically finished, there is that one last shot of Vader staring out the window. Not a word is said, no action is taken, and yet the inclusion of that brief shot demonstrates Vader’s longing for a reunion and reconciliation (or reckoning) with his son. Again, the same idea is repeated after Luke’s surrender on Endor. After the confrontation, and after Luke is escorted away, and the scene is over, there is again that last lingering pan on Vader, as he wanders over to the window and stares out into his own thoughts.
So from those two examples, and the way Vader’s part was written and directed in the movie, and the way JEJ voice-acted him, I would very much disagree with you that Vader’s climactic action came out of nowhere. He spent the whole second movie looking for his son, carrying an entire armada into an asteroid field in pursuit of his friends. As I demonstrated, his thoughts were on Luke at every turn in ROTJ, and his glances back and forth between Luke and the Emperor during the lightning attack scene, tells the audience everything they need to know.
The entire Darth Vader redemption angle, while well executed, also is just pulled out of thin air, as there’s literally nothing to indicate in any of the previous films, that Vader is anything but an evil monster.
Yes, it’s indeed very nice to discuss with other Star Wars fans. I would say, especially if we disagree with each other, because I think new perspectives generally are created more easily from disagreement, than agreement. So, thanks for your perspective 😃.
Let me first say, that despite some of my criticisms, I believe ROTJ contains some of the best scenes in the entire saga. My favourite being the brilliant silent contemplation of Vader as he watches his son being murdered by his master. The mood, camera angle, music all work wonders together.
My criticism of the first act of ROTJ is, that it doesn’t really advance the plot. It sort of plays as it’s own mini adventure. It’s entertaining as hell, and Jabba the Hutt to this day is movie making magic. The most disgusting peace of plastic put to film. However, as a part of the whole, it feels sort of disjointed. Here’s where I think TFA does better, as it manages to advance the plot, while successfully introducing a host of new characters. I personally feel TFA’s strongest part is the first act, and it’s final act, excluding the Starkiller Base, which is the movie’s Achilles heel.
I’m actually not arguing Vader’s action came out of nowhere. I think it worked very well in the context of the film. However, ROTJ for me is the first Star Wars film in the OT, that takes dramatic short cuts, and relies on the actor’s performances, and the individual scenes to compensate for this shortcoming. Two other examples:
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Yoda dies very conveniently as Luke delivers on his promise. While it is a dramatic short cut, the execution of the scene is so great, that it still works.
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It is revealed Luke and Leia are siblings. It is an another covenient twist, that diminishes the scope of the saga, a sort of precursor to Anakin building C-3PO, but the scene between Luke and Leia that follows is very well executed, and so it works in the end, allowing for a satisfactory conclusion to the Luke/Leia/Han love triangle.
I would argue, that the Han/Leia/Kylo story in TFA works in the same way. Their relationship is swiftly set up, and while it certainly isn’t as effective as the Luke/Vader interaction in ROTJ, it works for me, because of a strong performance by Harrison Ford and Adam Driver in their final meeting. To me it is a strong piece of film making, because aside from it’s visual splendor, that scene manages to convey a history between the characters, that’s nowhere to be seen in the rest of the film. Conversly, I felt the Leia/Han reunion felt forced, and didn’t really work, mostly because I felt Carrie Fisher was a little rusty and some weak dialogue, but was saved for me by the scene where the two characters embrace for the last time:
