Continuing off from the Last Movie Seen Thread
Make sure to expand these for proper context.
I started watching Return of the Jedi at about 6am, and its issues outweighed the good for the first time. Honestly, it gets worse each time I watch it.
I have been going through a similar experience with ROTJ but I don’t think I’ll ever see it as being anything less than okay. What was the one aspect of the film that caused you to change your opinion?
Nearly every character is misused and flat compared to their dynamic counterparts from the previous films. Han has nothing to do and is stupidly jealous, Lando’s betrayal is not addressed, Leia could be interchangeable with anyone, the sister plot twist has never sat well with me, Vader goes from wanting to overthrow the Emperor to being fine with having Luke kill him to prove a point that doesn’t make sense, the “I can turn him to the good side!” is incredibly naïve and sounds very childish, “A certain point of view?!”, Boba Fett didn’t need to be in the movie, the Ewoks ruin the film’s pacing, I could probably go on. These issues just got to me where the parts I usually enjoyed couldn’t save the film anymore.
Damn that was a good dissection of the films issues. You actually are the one of the first people to be able to fully articulate most of my issues for me. Nostalgia has partially blinded my vision 😉
Coming from a guy who’s gone out of his way to fix most of those issues, I’m very flattered.
I started watching Return of the Jedi at about 6am, and its issues outweighed the good for the first time. Honestly, it gets worse each time I watch it.
I have been going through a similar experience with ROTJ but I don’t think I’ll ever see it as being anything less than okay. What was the one aspect of the film that caused you to change your opinion?
Nearly every character is misused and flat compared to their dynamic counterparts from the previous films. Han has nothing to do and is stupidly jealous, Lando’s betrayal is not addressed, Leia could be interchangeable with anyone, the sister plot twist has never sat well with me, Vader goes from wanting to overthrow the Emperor to being fine with having Luke kill him to prove a point that doesn’t make sense, the “I can turn him to the good side!” is incredibly naïve and sounds very childish, “A certain point of view?!”, Boba Fett didn’t need to be in the movie, the Ewoks ruin the film’s pacing, I could probably go on. These issues just got to me where the parts I usually enjoyed couldn’t save the film anymore.
The only point I disagree with is when you said Luke seeing good in Vader is naive. He surely should have felt something in Vader when he was offered a place at his side. I wish Luke could have said something like “Bringing our father back won’t undo all the things he’s done but it’s a start” or something stating the realistic nature of redeeming the right hand of The Devil.
I agree with this.
I disagree that there needs to be a scene with Lando and Han reconciling. Lando did the right thing and Han knows it. I would like a scene where that conversation happens.
I disagree that there needs to be a scene with Lando and Han reconciling. Lando did the right thing and Han knows it. I would like a scene where that conversation happens.
I never said there needs to be a certain way it needs to happen, all I said is Lando’s betrayal is unaddressed. I’d be fine with either of the things you suggested, but as is it just seems to be forgotten as if it didn’t even happen, which is weird. There’s simply nothing in the movie that gives us anything other than “How are you, old chum, tra la la!” when the dynamic between the two could have been much more interesting.
The only point I disagree with is when you said Luke seeing good in Vader is naive. He surely should have felt something in Vader when he was offered a place at his side. I wish Luke could have said something like “Bringing our father back won’t undo all the things he’s done but it’s a start” or something stating the realistic nature of redeeming the right hand of The Devil.
I just think it was done in a very black and white way, when it could have been much more complicated. Vader’s eventual turn is great, one of my favorite moments in the trilogy, but Luke just believing there’s good in him without really giving any reason (his reaction at the end of ESB didn’t really convince me he felt anything for being offered a place at his side, and that specific point isn’t really addressed in ROTJ), and just the phrase, “The good side!” rubs me the wrong way. It’s not something I felt would have been uttered in the previous films. Luke’s conversation with Ben could have really set up Luke’s motivations, but it’s also a missed opportunity.
In the original two films, it looks like Vader is slowly gaining power, rather than being the right hand of “The Devil”, as you say. His character is pretty different in ROTJ, he doesn’t do any of the dirty work he used to, he just sulks around. It’s odd to me.