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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 132

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 (Edited)

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

You’re twisting my words, you said if anyone is offended over anything, then they should stop. You were the one making all offense equivalent, and I was pointing that out.

I said if anyone is offended over something reasonable. Being offended because I ate some burnt crust is not reasonable, nor is it reasonable to be offended because I drank a glass of wine.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

The Person in Question

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Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

That sounds like it has nothing to do with the alcohol itself.

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TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Is the problem that they removed the t-shirt, or that they removed what you consider a non-racist t-shirt?

If the t-shirt included the n-word, would it be ok to remove it, or would it still be “sickening?”

If it contained the n-word, it should most definitely have been removed. As it was, I don’t know. Until yesterday I had no idea of any racial connotation behind the words “Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe”, so I don’t know.

I’m generally in agreement, but I think of it the way I think of the game Smear the Queer. When I was a kid I played it and had no idea it could be considered offensive. Now that I know better, if I were playing that game again, I’d call it something else.

I’ve never heard of that game.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

That sounds like it has nothing to do with the alcohol itself.

Perhaps not.

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TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

Wow, never even heard of that one.

???

The childhood game you mentioned.

Seriously? I thought we were pretty close in age and culture and most everyone in our situation was familiar with that game. Huh.

Maybe it’s something I’ve seen or heard, but just don’t have a name for? I couldn’t give a proper name to even half of the dumb things kids did or said back then. I also essentially lived the life of an Army brat, with my father’s job making us move every couple years or less. I was in so many elementary schools, I’ve lost count.

Where were you in '77?

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moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

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Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

Okay I guess? Hard to understand without knowing the full picture. I suppose if people are treating you poorly because of this than I’d say that is the behavior that should change, not the alcohol itself.

Full disclosure, I don’t drink either. But that’s never really been any sort of issue for me.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

The Person in Question

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

Absobloodyexactly.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

If you’re just going to go ahead and think it’s empathy v. not having empathy because you found one black person who was offended, I don’t know what to say. If you’re trying to tell me I have to fall in line with what black people tell me to do, which one do I follow? Ben Carson or Obama? Who? All of them? That’s a lot of conflicting opinions and perspectives there. What do I do? Once again I’m going to refer to the fact that a group is comprised of individuals, you simplifying it to just black people can do no wrong is patronizing.

I said black people can do no wrong?

You have repeatedly said over the years that if a black person is offended about anything, I should change my behaviors and ideology to suit this stranger. It gives that impression.

No. If a black person says you shouldn’t eat toast because there’s a burned part that symbolizes the black man and you’re eating the black man, that’s ridiculous and you should ignore it. If a black man says a phrase is racist, and you look it up and it turns out that yeah that was the origin, then yeah maybe you shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really not that complicated.

What if you don’t find it racist?

What if other people do? Can you not at least conceptualize why some people might find it racist, and shouldn’t that be enough to just not use it?

Why is it so hard to not use a different phrase? What’s wrong with playing Smear the Queer but calling it something else instead?

Why is it so important to you that you don’t care if you hurt someone?

How about this - if some people (not all) are offended by something, don’t do it.

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

What about cultural appropriation? Some black people think that it’s racist for whites to do things that are typically “black”, like make rap music.

I’ll admit to being torn on this one.

Author
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Speech that is offensive is much more important to protect than non-offensive speech, as offensive speech is the only speech that is questioned anyway. Again, bringing this to Star Trek, many of the ideas then were considered offensive at the time, women wrote in saying they didn’t like the female first officer! Did they change to stop causing offense? A bit, but not really. It didn’t change their mindset.

I presume they wrote these letters after The Menagerie aired, as The Cage never aired in it’s original form in the 60’s. I know the network suits allegedly put pressure on Gene Roddenberry to lose the character of Number One.
Viewers getting upset over a one shot character presented in the context of a flashback from 13 years in the past, that’s not even a current crew member, is a good definition of people who have too much time on their hands. 😉

I remember a documentary where Roddenberry was talking about people being upset about the female first officer. Maybe he showed the Cage to test audiences and those were the ones complaining?

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

You’re twisting my words, you said if anyone is offended over anything, then they should stop. You were the one making all offense equivalent, and I was pointing that out.

I said if anyone is offended over something reasonable. Being offended because I ate some burnt crust is not reasonable, nor is it reasonable to be offended because I drank a glass of wine.

Who decides what is reasonable and what is not?

Author
Time

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

You think people are drinking alcohol in order to ostracize you? I would think people drink it because they like it.

Author
Time

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

You’re twisting my words, you said if anyone is offended over anything, then they should stop. You were the one making all offense equivalent, and I was pointing that out.

I said if anyone is offended over something reasonable. Being offended because I ate some burnt crust is not reasonable, nor is it reasonable to be offended because I drank a glass of wine.

Who decides what is reasonable and what is not?

It’s a fair question. But a nursery rhyme that has racist origins clearly seems more racist than a Pinot Noir.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

The Person in Question

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:

How are you offended by alcohol?

The consumption of alcohol is abhorrent to me. Read up on why the Prohibition movement took hold.

Is the consumption of alcohol really affecting you in the way a racist remark might or do you just not like it?

It’s done a lot to ostracize me, so perhaps it is affecting me. It was just an example, I don’t want to be psychoanalyzed.

You think people are drinking alcohol in order to ostracize you? I would think people drink it because they like it.

I assume he meant people are ostracizing him for not drinking alcohol…which as was stated, is not the alcohol’s fault.

Author
Time

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Speech that is offensive is much more important to protect than non-offensive speech, as offensive speech is the only speech that is questioned anyway.

That is absolutely true. But it misses the point… nobody has said that the vendor shouldn’t have the right to sell the shirt. The vendor considered the evidence, and chose not to sell the shirt. You seem to be angry about that.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

Author
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

Ok.

Author
Time

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Is the problem that they removed the t-shirt, or that they removed what you consider a non-racist t-shirt?

If the t-shirt included the n-word, would it be ok to remove it, or would it still be “sickening?”

If it contained the n-word, it should most definitely have been removed. As it was, I don’t know. Until yesterday I had no idea of any racial connotation behind the words “Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe”, so I don’t know.

I’m generally in agreement, but I think of it the way I think of the game Smear the Queer. When I was a kid I played it and had no idea it could be considered offensive. Now that I know better, if I were playing that game again, I’d call it something else.

I’ve never heard of that game.

I remember it very well.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

If you’re just going to go ahead and think it’s empathy v. not having empathy because you found one black person who was offended, I don’t know what to say. If you’re trying to tell me I have to fall in line with what black people tell me to do, which one do I follow? Ben Carson or Obama? Who? All of them? That’s a lot of conflicting opinions and perspectives there. What do I do? Once again I’m going to refer to the fact that a group is comprised of individuals, you simplifying it to just black people can do no wrong is patronizing.

I said black people can do no wrong?

You have repeatedly said over the years that if a black person is offended about anything, I should change my behaviors and ideology to suit this stranger. It gives that impression.

No. If a black person says you shouldn’t eat toast because there’s a burned part that symbolizes the black man and you’re eating the black man, that’s ridiculous and you should ignore it. If a black man says a phrase is racist, and you look it up and it turns out that yeah that was the origin, then yeah maybe you shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really not that complicated.

What if you don’t find it racist?

What if other people do? Can you not at least conceptualize why some people might find it racist, and shouldn’t that be enough to just not use it?

Why is it so hard to not use a different phrase? What’s wrong with playing Smear the Queer but calling it something else instead?

Why is it so important to you that you don’t care if you hurt someone?

How about this - if some people (not all) are offended by something, don’t do it.

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

What about cultural appropriation? Some black people think that it’s racist for whites to do things that are typically “black”, like make rap music.

I’ll admit to being torn on this one.

Why? You admit to listening to the Beastie Boys. There’s people who think that this is racist because they “stole” black music. What about eating foreign food, or soul food? If someone thinks that you’re stealing their culture, then shouldn’t you stop? I won’t stop because I don’t care that they think that since I think it’s ridiculous.

The Person in Question

Author
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

Let me rephrase. You think that you have the right to say something offensive and they have the right to be offended, but they’re the ones who are jerks for being offended.

Better?