Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 37

It’s definitely plural. The translated title has been released simultaneously in several languages throughout Europe and Latin America, obviously it’s a coordinated strategy.

Milenials are already working in think tanks by 2017. Clearly they can’t come up with a decent spacially and emotionally human scaled plot for a movie but most definitely they will foresee these kind of ruses in marketing techniques about reveals and plot twists on almost every possible matter.

It’s all they know and love to do. Well played.

Rian Johnson is Gen-X and I doubt he has anything to do with when the foreign translations are revealed.

But sure. Let’s keep criticizing a film (that, again, isn’t out for another 10 months) for the most inane reasons.

Wow! Oh my god! The company marketing the biggest film of the year has a strategy for how to market it? How devious.

Mithrandir said:

It’s definitely plural. The translated title has been released simultaneously in several languages throughout Europe and Latin America, obviously it’s a coordinated strategy.

Milenials are already working in think tanks by 2017. Clearly they can’t come up with a decent spacially and emotionally human scaled plot for a movie but most definitely they will foresee these kind of ruses in marketing techniques about reveals and plot twists on almost every possible matter.

It’s all they know and love to do. Well played.

Take it to the Gen-X thread.

Has anyone officially commented on whether it’s plural or not? It’s pretty open as of now and shut but official comments are way better.

DominicCobb said:

Rian Johnson is Gen-X and I doubt he has anything to do with when the foreign translations are revealed.

But sure. Let’s keep criticizing a film (that, again, isn’t out for another 10 months) for the most inane reasons.

Wow! Oh my god! The company marketing the biggest film of the year has a strategy for how to market it? How devious.

It’s not devious, it’s just plain stupid. As stupid as the people who enjoy those kind of common places.

Do you know what’s really unpredictable? A totally low profile blockbuster, with no big deals about title release or secrecy about the plot. That’s why Rogue One is up to date the best of the two Disney movies. It didn’t need to carry on any tradition, not even the tradition to surprise anyone on anything.

That’s what we need. A simple, effective story that doesn’t need to create mistery around anything to get you going. I want to see cinema, not the byproduct of a generation of videogamers.

It’s in the hands of your faaaaaaaaaathaaa…HAN…SOLO (duh duh duhhh)

Mithrandir said:
That’s what we need. A simple, effective story that doesn’t need to create mistery around anything to get you going. I want to see cinema, not the byproduct of a generation of videogamers.

That’s pretty much the jist of it. I think anyone who enjoys Rogue One more than TFA or any of the OT films just wanted a simple and original story filled with fun characters and nice explosions. Doesn’t matter if the plot is inconsistent and certain things are glossed over or that most of the characters are paper thin because Rogue One is a fun ride overall.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

I think anyone who enjoys Rogue One more than TFA or any of the OT films just wanted a simple and original story filled with fun characters and nice explosions. Doesn’t matter if the plot is inconsistent and certain things are glossed over or that most of the characters are paper thin because Rogue One is a fun ride overall.

Speaking of inconsistent plot and glossed over things, TFA pretends that plot is about finding Luke while in reality it is about destroying death star. R1 has nothing anywhere this scale.

Speaking of paper thin characters, Krennic and Cassian are by far more interesting and complex than any of the “paper thin” character in TFA.

I think you should stop finding lame false explanations about R1 and TFA in order to feel better. You should face the fact that R1 is simply good and TFA is crap. Those of us who like R1 and dislike TFA simply accept this truth.

Aren’t you the one who’s always saying there’s no objective measure for a film’s quality?

At least be consistent with your fuckery, or get out of here.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

I think anyone who enjoys Rogue One more than TFA or any of the OT films just wanted a simple and original story filled with fun characters and nice explosions. Doesn’t matter if the plot is inconsistent and certain things are glossed over or that most of the characters are paper thin because Rogue One is a fun ride overall.

Speaking of inconsistent plot and glossed over things, TFA pretends that plot is about finding Luke while in reality it is about destroying death star. R1 has nothing anywhere this scale.

That has nothing to do with my complaint about Rogue One.

Speaking of paper thin characters, Krennic and Cassian are by far more interesting and complex than any of the “paper thin” character in TFA.

Two standout characters in a film filled with underdeveloped characters. TFA’s characters in general were more fleshed out. You don’t have to like Finn, Rey, Kylo or this version of Han and Leia but we knew far more about them than we did about most of the characters in Rogue One. That includes Cassian and especially Director Krennic. He was a competent and entertaining villain but there isn’t much character development there. His rationalization of using terror to instill piece is great but was glossed over and aside from that there’s nothing much to say about his character in terms of actual depth. I’ve already gone into detail over why Kylo Ren is complex and have pointed that he will be given even more layers as the ST moves forward. Cassian was interesting and we got to know about his backstory and how he views the Rebellions more questionable actions but I felt there could have been more to him or that his moral ambiguity was made a larger focal point. If we compare him to Rey however he seems underdeveloped in comparison as we know certain things about Rey’s backstory, we have seen a myriad of emotional states from her, we have seen actions that show us what type of person she is, we know the pain that dwells inside her, we know her hopes etc. We definitely didn’t get much of that with Jyn. Aside from the sub plot with her father (which was well done imo) and her being angry about being abandoned by Saw Gurerra which has caused her not to expect people to be there for her about she is just as underwritten as the others.

I think you should stop finding lame false explanations about R1 and TFA in order to feel better. You should face the fact that R1 is simply good and TFA is crap. Those of us who like R1 and dislike TFA simply accept this truth.

I like Rogue One but it’s definitely more entertaining than well written. I personally can’t say the same for TFA.

Lord Haseo said:

Has anyone officially commented on whether it’s plural or not? It’s pretty open as of now and shut but official comments are way better.

Yes the Offical Star Wars show hosts joked on January 25th, aka 2 days after the reveal, at all the people debating whether or not it was plural, but I’d say they were definitely heavily hinting the plurality of the term.

https://youtu.be/HHCBAUuJWco?t=1m12s

Is that opinion or truth?

To be honest both have the same amount of distracting fan service and poor writing. At this stage R1 bothers me more because retconning the exhaust port from a flaw to a feature is so lazy. I prefer the idea that Empire overlooked it because it was too big to fail. TFA still has the stupid map and the stupider R2D2 activation moment, but it averages out so that both become simply mediocre. I would need to see it again to be sure how badly the lack of development Saw and uh (actually looking it up) Jyn get impacts it on the whole.

As for TLJ and the actual topic at hand I am curious about Rian Johnson being the sole credited writer. Is this a good thing? Perhaps. Is that even a realist credit for a movie this large? Perhaps not. At least his inspirations are WW2 and samurai movies, which are apt. I need Rey’s arc to be something original, and I need the future of the First Order to be satisfactory. Most people’s suspicions on how Luke will deal with things are probably correct since Lawrence Kasdan got his ROTJ wishes in motion to have him be a lone wanderer. I just want progression overall to be honest.

Mocata said:

As for TLJ and the actual topic at hand I am curious about Rian Johnson being the sole credited writer. Is this a good thing? Perhaps. Is that even a realist credit for a movie this large? Perhaps not. At least his inspirations are WW2 and samurai movies, which are apt. I need Rey’s arc to be something original, and I need the future of the First Order to be satisfactory. Most people’s suspicions on how Luke will deal with things are probably correct since Lawrence Kasdan got his ROTJ wishes in motion to have him be a lone wanderer. I just want progression overall to be honest.

I’m fairly certain aspects of the story were developed with the story group (and quite likely the TFA writing team), but there’s nothing wrong with Johnson going solo on writing duties. In fact, I think it will be interesting to see a singular vision in that regard.

imperialscum said:

Development (change of character) does not make characters good or well written. TFA characters may get more development throughout the film but they are boring or unoriginal and the development is bad or unoriginal. While in R1 the characters may not change much (do no get much development) but at least they are complex and interesting.

Elaborate please. Beyond Cassian how are the characters complex? You say these things but you never really go into detail.

Lord Haseo said:

I think you should stop finding lame false explanations about R1 and TFA in order to feel better. You should face the fact that R1 is simply good and TFA is crap. Those of us who like R1 and dislike TFA simply accept this truth.

I like Rogue One but it’s definitely more entertaining than well written. I personally can’t say the same for TFA.

TFA is neither well written nor entertaining.

Your opinion.

EDIT:

Tobar said:

Mocata said:

TFA still has the stupid map and the stupider R2D2 activation moment, but it averages out so that both become simply mediocre.

Don’t forget seeing the destruction of a planet from an entirely different star system.

TFA was far worse with its offenses.

I think we can all agree Starkiller Base is the worst thing to come out of these films.

Lord Haseo said:

I think we can all agree Starkiller Base is the worst thing to come out of these films.

No, the worst thing that came out of these films were the people that use every thread to complain about them.

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

Is that opinion or truth?

Aren’t they the same?

It’s like you can’t even hear yourself.

TV’s Frink said:

Lord Haseo said:

I think we can all agree Starkiller Base is the worst thing to come out of these films.

No, the worst thing that came out of these films were the people that use every thread to complain about them.

That would be true if I had real life implications in mind. I try to keep the two separate as it makes the films easier to evaluate.

Lord Haseo said:
Cassian was interesting and we got to know about his backstory and how he views the Rebellions more questionable actions but I felt there could have been more to him or that his moral ambiguity was made a larger focal point. If we compare him to Rey however he seems underdeveloped in comparison as we know certain things about Rey’s backstory, we have seen a myriad of emotional states from her, we have seen actions that show us what type of person she is […]

We may not agree on character development

We’ve seen Rey intensively cry, laugh, be amused by her abilities, be afraid, run away…all in one movie. You call this character development, I just think it’s an emotional rollercoaster where she reacts generically the way she’s supposed to. And just by the sheer quantity of emotional responses she gives, all I can think of is in an unstable character that doesn’t know or understand anything (but then magically knows how to do everything). Hardly likeable. She’s not even forced by the circumstances to leave Jakku, not at least in the same way Luke was by the death of his uncles.

There where Luke was Frodo, Rey is more like Bilbo going on an adventure, which in a way sets up the “disney” tone of the rest of the movie.

Cassian, instead, we don’t see him change much in Rogue One (except when he doesn’t shoot Galen Erso, and then joins Jyn to get to Eadu), but just one thing explains all you say it isn’t explained (where he comes from, what are his expectations, what kind of person he is and his emotional state) which is the brief, tense, open, non exhaustive scene inside the ship after the death or Jyn’s dad.

Why is it infinitely better than anything in TFA? Because it’s all based in Diego Luna’s acting, and in a dialogue in which it is more important what is implied and not said: Cassian lost his family in a war situation, war and loss is all he knows, and he is willing to die for a cause basically because he is left with nothing to live for.

Yes, I have completed the meaning of the scene and resignified the character with my interpretation, but that’s the whole point of a well (or at least, better) written movie and true character development , not just having the movie start with a character not liking chocolate and end it with it liking it. That’s just a cheap interpretation of Joseph Campbell’s cheap interpretation of (mainly) medieval cycles.

In the end, Cassian might be a little monolithic but reminds me of Javert in Les Miserables, where only in one point and just in one point, he confesses he comes from the drains of society as well, and suddenly all his actions and feelings including his overly rigid moral compass are explained.

And yes, it’s a reveal moment, only that not so overly emphasized and underlined; just human scale, totally relatable. It explains the guy and his motivations from a human point of view.

Was more actually needed?