Can Someone Explain the Map to Luke Skywalker? — Page 3

Oh, right. Sorry, it’s been a few months since I’ve seen it.

Btw, I was Googling “why does R2D2 have the map” and I found this: http://ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens/

"“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”"

Honestly, I think this could have been made a little more clear, but I feel better now knowing the writers’ intent.

Mavimao said:

I always assumed it was Rey who triggers R2’s wake.

Here’s another plothole for episode 4: if Leia knew they had a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon, why did they go straight to the rebel base? Why not go to some moon, rendez vous with some rebels and use the MF as a lure later on.

According to the people who made the movie, you’re wrong. But I don’t blame you for assuming that, because the movie didn’t make their intentions clear. TFA is kind of vague about a lot of stuff. I don’t really understand why Leia’s forces are called The Resistance and not simply “The Republic Army.” The movie doesn’t really make it very clear which force is dominant in the galaxy, First Order or New Republic/Resistance. Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.

Your “plot hole” about the tracking device isn’t the same thing because ANH isn’t made confusing because they don’t address why they don’t stop to do something about it. It can easily be explained - Han may not believe her about the tracking device; Leia isn’t 100% sure there is a tracking device; if they stop somewhere, they may not be able to contact the rebels and arrange a meeting before the Death Star catches up with them, etc. Either way, it’s a minor minor detail, and what they’re planning on doing (beating the Death Star to Yavin, giving the plans to the rebels to find a weakness, launch an attack) works and it makes sense. The vagueness in TFA actually makes parts of the story confusing, and people walked away with different ideas than what was intended by the filmmakers.

Cthulhunicron said:
Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.

That’s true but there are very few things in there can’t be explained or inferred and the rest are too important not to be brought up in VIII. Adam Driver recently said that there will be things in VIII that will make both movies make sense so I think a lot of your concerns/confusion will be alleviated.

Lord Haseo said:

Cthulhunicron said:
Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.

That’s true but there are very few things in there can’t be explained or inferred and the rest are too important not to be brought up in VIII. Adam Driver recently said that there will be things in VIII that will make both movies make sense so I think a lot of your concerns/confusion will be alleviated.

As I’ve said before, if everything is cleared up in later films, then no problem. But a lot of people were saying “how R2 got the map is irrelevant.” If it’s never explained, then I think it’s an issue. I watched the movie three times, and I never once got the slightest hint that R2 had the map because he plugged into the Death Star’s computer, or that R2 woke up because of BB-8 asking him about the map.

And honestly, it does seem weird to me that the Empire had a map to the original Jedi temple, and the New Republic never added this map to their records in 33 years of access to Imperial computers. But whatever…

Cthulhunicron said:

Lord Haseo said:

Cthulhunicron said:
Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.

That’s true but there are very few things in there can’t be explained or inferred and the rest are too important not to be brought up in VIII. Adam Driver recently said that there will be things in VIII that will make both movies make sense so I think a lot of your concerns/confusion will be alleviated.

As I’ve said before, if everything is cleared up in later films, then no problem. But a lot of people were saying “how R2 got the map is irrelevant.” If it’s never explained, then I think it’s an issue. I watched the movie three times, and I never once got the slightest hint that R2 had the map because he plugged into the Death Star’s computer, or that R2 woke up because of BB-8 asking him about the map.

I’ll admit I hate the in universe explanation but it’s still an explanation. If anything the burning question is why is Lor San Tekka on Jakku of all places? If Luke didn’t put Rey on Jakku things are going to get really convoluted.

On somewhat of a sidenote, I’m glad that you’re one of the few willing to wait before rendering complete judgement.

And honestly, it does seem weird to me that the Empire had a map to the original Jedi temple, and the New Republic never added this map to their records in 33 years of access to Imperial computers. But whatever…

So The New Republic had access to EVERY terminal/server/mainframe the Empire had? If not then it makes since as to why they didn’t as it would be luck of the draw due to the possibility those same terminals, servers or mainframes could have either been destroyed or fell into the hands of a remnant of The Empire which could or could not have turned into The First Order.

Cthulhunicron said:

Mavimao said:

I always assumed it was Rey who triggers R2’s wake.

Here’s another plothole for episode 4: if Leia knew they had a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon, why did they go straight to the rebel base? Why not go to some moon, rendez vous with some rebels and use the MF as a lure later on.

According to the people who made the movie, you’re wrong. But I don’t blame you for assuming that, because the movie didn’t make their intentions clear.

That’s the filmmakers explanation and you can take it or leave it. The official, in-universe explanation is still open to a different explanation.

TFA is kind of vague about a lot of stuff. I don’t really understand why Leia’s forces are called The Resistance and not simply “The Republic Army.” The movie doesn’t really make it very clear which force is dominant in the galaxy, First Order or New Republic/Resistance. Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.

The film is shy about getting into details, but you can still figure it out. The Republic has been the dominant force in the galaxy, but is sort of hands off (“a regime that acquiesces to disorder”). The First Order is relatively new (“in [Luke’s] absence the sinister First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire”) and has taken control of a number of systems and is in the process of taking the rest (“all remaining systems will bow to the First Order”). The Republic says publicly it doesn’t have a problem with the First Order, but is actually trying to stop them through the clandestine Resistance (“the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance”).

DominicCobb said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Mavimao said:

I always assumed it was Rey who triggers R2’s wake.

Here’s another plothole for episode 4: if Leia knew they had a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon, why did they go straight to the rebel base? Why not go to some moon, rendez vous with some rebels and use the MF as a lure later on.

According to the people who made the movie, you’re wrong. But I don’t blame you for assuming that, because the movie didn’t make their intentions clear.

That’s the filmmakers explanation and you can take it or leave it. The official, in-universe explanation is still open to a different explanation.

Since the explanation about R2 getting the map from the Death Star computer is their intent, I doubt they’re going to clarify it any further. But if they do, then great, problem solved. As I’ve said again and again, if they leave it as it is, without any further explanation in later films, I think it is a problem. If they go into it in further detail later on, I think it’s fine.

Regarding the details of the Republic and First Order, you’re right, at least the movie has clues so you can kind of piece it together. There’s literally nothing in the movie that suggests that R2 got the map from the Death Star, or that he “heard BB-8 in his coma” and slowly woke up as a result.

Yeah. I’m not sure why it matters, but if it bothers you, so be it.

All this interesting discussion and theories about the map to Luke, makes me want to rewatch TFA.

I really despise the “R2 downloading the map from the Death Star” explanation. My headcanon is that Luke intended for Lor San Tekka to bring Rey into the fold at some point like Obi-Wan did with Luke and send her to Leia with the map. R2 was programmed to wake up when Rey registered on whatever sensors he’s got going on while he’s in standby mode, hence why he only comes to life when Rey arrives on D’Qar. Lor San Tekka entrusts the map to Poe at the beginning of the film because he sees that the shit is about to hit the fan, and either he wasn’t aware Rey’s presence being necessary for R2 to work or he intended to reach out to her after the fact and send her to the Resistance if Kylo hadn’t killed him. It isn’t airtight, but it makes some amount of sense for Tekka to ditch the original plan to keep the map out of enemy hands.

and Luke had given R2 the rest of the map before he left, of course. I’m realizing that I left that out of my previous post.

Tyrphanax said:

joefavs said:

I really despise the “R2 downloading the map from the Death Star” explanation. My headcanon is that Luke intended for Lor San Tekka to bring Rey into the fold at some point like Obi-Wan did with Luke and send her to Leia with the map. R2 was programmed to wake up when Rey registered on whatever sensors he’s got going on while he’s in standby mode, hence why he only comes to life when Rey arrives on D’Qar. Lor San Tekka entrusts the map to Poe at the beginning of the film because he sees that the shit is about to hit the fan, and either he wasn’t aware Rey’s presence being necessary for R2 to work or he intended to reach out to her after the fact and send her to the Resistance if Kylo hadn’t killed him. It isn’t airtight, but it makes some amount of sense for Tekka to ditch the original plan to keep the map out of enemy hands.

I like it.

Likewise.

My theory is that the map the First Order have and Artoo has are the same and have the same hole in them because Leia (or Snoke as she is known in first order circles) gave the First Order all that she had and Luke withheld the missing section from his sister who he already knew to be corrupted by the dark side.
But that’s probably too interesting to be actually what was going to happen and now with Carrie’s death it might be difficult to put on screen.

Bingowings said:

My theory is that the map the First Order have and Artoo has are the same and have the same hole in them because Leia (or Snoke as she is known in first order circles) gave the First Order all that she had and Luke withheld the missing section from his sister who he already knew to be corrupted by the dark side.
But that’s probably too interesting to be actually what was going to happen and now with Carrie’s death it might be difficult to put on screen.

WTF?! That would be quite an interesting twist.

Kylo Ren discovering his Master is his mother would be the ST version of the similar scene in ESB… they rhyme 😄

If Leia is Snoke I will never post here again.

In this thread or in your home?

joefavs said:

I really despise the “R2 downloading the map from the Death Star” explanation. My headcanon is that Luke intended for Lor San Tekka to bring Rey into the fold at some point like Obi-Wan did with Luke and send her to Leia with the map. R2 was programmed to wake up when Rey registered on whatever sensors he’s got going on while he’s in standby mode, hence why he only comes to life when Rey arrives on D’Qar. Lor San Tekka entrusts the map to Poe at the beginning of the film because he sees that the shit is about to hit the fan, and either he wasn’t aware Rey’s presence being necessary for R2 to work or he intended to reach out to her after the fact and send her to the Resistance if Kylo hadn’t killed him. It isn’t airtight, but it makes some amount of sense for Tekka to ditch the original plan to keep the map out of enemy hands.

Well, unfortunately, that’s not what the filmmakers intended. There’s already a canon explanation, and it’s in the TFA novelization.

Cthulhunicron said:

joefavs said:

I really despise the “R2 downloading the map from the Death Star” explanation. My headcanon is that Luke intended for Lor San Tekka to bring Rey into the fold at some point like Obi-Wan did with Luke and send her to Leia with the map. R2 was programmed to wake up when Rey registered on whatever sensors he’s got going on while he’s in standby mode, hence why he only comes to life when Rey arrives on D’Qar. Lor San Tekka entrusts the map to Poe at the beginning of the film because he sees that the shit is about to hit the fan, and either he wasn’t aware Rey’s presence being necessary for R2 to work or he intended to reach out to her after the fact and send her to the Resistance if Kylo hadn’t killed him. It isn’t airtight, but it makes some amount of sense for Tekka to ditch the original plan to keep the map out of enemy hands.

Well, unfortunately, that’s not what the filmmakers intended. There’s already a canon explanation, and it’s in the TFA novelization.

Which means it’s not in the film, regardless of what was intended.

DominicCobb said:
… Think of the galaxy as if it were more like hundreds of years ago in some ways. …

You mean something like “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…”?
😃

DonShockley said:

DominicCobb said:
… Think of the galaxy as if it were more like hundreds of years ago in some ways. …

You mean something like “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…”?
😃

Exactly! Everyone thinks of Star Wars as futuristic, but it’s not, necessarily.

Well, don’t forget the ellipses, at the end of “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…”.
I think the complete phrase is “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, in an alternate dimension, where old & new Technology exist.”