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Harmy's RETURN OF THE JEDI Despecialized Edition HD - V3.1 — Page 130

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I can confirm that DTS HD-MA can be matrixed with Pro Logic using my Kodi box & amplifier.

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 (Edited)

zxthehedgehog said:

I can confirm that DTS HD-MA can be matrixed with Pro Logic using my Kodi box & amplifier.

Oh, thank you.

I was thinking otherwise because I asked someone in RuTracker regarding the Studio Ghibli Blu-rays and said that DTS formats cannot have Dolby Pro Logic matrixing.

Guess he was wrong.

And that the Ghibli Blu-rays with DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 can actually be matrixed with Dolby Pro Logic as they say in the cover.

And I’ve loved every pixel of it.
(Clarissa Darling, Clarissa Explains It All)

You’re so right.
(Kylo Ren, Star Wars: The Force Awakens)

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I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

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BadCane said:

I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

Yes. Only Star Wars ever had a numberless version. When ESB came out, it was V, and they switched SW to IV.

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towne32 said:

BadCane said:

I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

Yes. Only Star Wars ever had a numberless version. When ESB came out, it was V, and they switched SW to IV.

Thank you very much. So, back in 1980, the crawl to ESB read Episode V already?

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BadCane said:

towne32 said:

BadCane said:

I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

Yes. Only Star Wars ever had a numberless version. When ESB came out, it was V, and they switched SW to IV.

Thank you very much. So, back in 1980, the crawl to ESB read Episode V already?

Yes. And then in 1981, they made the first of many changes to Star Wars by renaming it A New Hope.

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towne32 said:

BadCane said:

towne32 said:

BadCane said:

I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

Yes. Only Star Wars ever had a numberless version. When ESB came out, it was V, and they switched SW to IV.

Thank you very much. So, back in 1980, the crawl to ESB read Episode V already?

Yes. And then in 1981, they made the first of many changes to Star Wars by renaming it A New Hope.

I’m kind of ashamed right now. I’m a 23 year old and been a fan for some 15-17 years by now and only TODAY I discovered this. I thought they were renamed back in 1997-1999, when the whole Prequel thing came to life.

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George Lucas says that he already wanted the first Star Wars to be named Episode IV when it was originally released because it was the adaptation of the middle section of an extensive script he had written. But I am not sure how much truth is in that.

“I want to watch Empire on my refrigerator’s LCD screen but listen to the Austrailan audio thru my USB phonograph setup and it worked on the other two movies” -yoda-sama

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Discostu said:

George Lucas says that he already wanted the first Star Wars to be named Episode IV when it was originally released because it was the adaptation of the middle section of an extensive script he had written. But I am not sure how much truth is in that.

We can only guess. The man has denied things he said many times.

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Swift S. Lawliet said:

clutchins said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

I have some other suggestions:

  1. I think the English mono tracks for Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back should be LPCM 1.0 instead of DTS-HD Master Audio since there is little difference in quality and/or size and LPCM has increased compatibility compared to DTS-HD Master Audio.

  2. I also think that the English 35mm Stereo mixes should be Dolby TrueHD instead of DTS-HD Master Audio so that there can be surround matrixing similar to the LaserDisc audio.
    Dolby TrueHD has this Dolby Pro Logic capability but for DTS-HD Master Audio, I’m not sure.
    There was apparently something called DTS Stereo which was used on some LaserDiscs and theatrical releases but I’m not sure if it can be used in the modernized DTS and DTS-HD codecs.
    I also think that the alternative English LaserDisc mixes should also be in Dolby TrueHD, if it is still allowed in the 48MBps bitrate limit of Blu-ray.

  3. What do you think of the isolated score being in LPCM 2.0? Already posted about it but barely anyone replied to it.

I second this

Wait. I also forgot:

  1. I think the 5.1 mixes should be in 6.1 or 7.1 instead (most likely 6.1)
    I actually talked to hairy_hen about this, he said he probably couldn’t perfectly test this as he only has a 5.1 system and is not entirely sure on how good it would sound.

I’m not sure of the value of this. If the whole point of the 5.1 mix is to approximate the theatrical 6-channel mix, wouldn’t adding extra channels move it further from that goal? It’s already a little bit off because 5.1 doesn’t quite equal 4.2–but there’s no home video 4.2 standard, so 5.1 is about as close as you can get. I suppose you could do 6.1 and have the two rear channels duplicate the center rear (effectively 4.1), but that seems a lot of effort (and duplicated audio data) for a dubious return, and you could accomplish more-or-less the same with a phantom center in 5.1 if that was your goal. It’d upmix to sound exactly like that on 6.1 systems anyway.

Now if the point was to make an entirely new and spiffy 6.1 or 7.1 mix, without any attempt to be authentic to the original, maybe that’d be fine.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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BadCane said:

I’m kind of ashamed right now. I’m a 23 year old and been a fan for some 15-17 years by now and only TODAY I discovered this. I thought they were renamed back in 1997-1999, when the whole Prequel thing came to life.

There’s definitely no shame in thinking that, because while the episode number has always been there for ESB and ROTJ, they were never marketed as such until after the prequels - the first time an episode number was ever seen on a home-video release cover was the 2000 VHS re-release of the ‘97 SE, which had covers that tied in to the look of the Phantom Menace VHS release.
So, the episode numbers were there in the crawls but they were never really a part of the films’ names - they were called The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi until they were effectively renamed in the early 2000s.

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The story goes George wanted the IV in the 1977 crawl, but Fox told him nobody would understand why the first movie in the series was actually the fourth. So he relented and just had “Star Wars” instead of “Episode IV A NEW HOPE”.

she/her
mwah

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Harmy said:

BadCane said:

I’m kind of ashamed right now. I’m a 23 year old and been a fan for some 15-17 years by now and only TODAY I discovered this. I thought they were renamed back in 1997-1999, when the whole Prequel thing came to life.

There’s definitely no shame in thinking that, because while the episode number has always been there for ESB and ROTJ, they were never marketed as such until after the prequels - the first time an episode number was ever seen on a home-video release cover was the 2000 VHS re-release of the ‘97 SE, which had covers that tied in to the look of the Phantom Menace VHS release.
So, the episode numbers were there in the crawls but they were never really a part of the films’ names - they were called The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi until they were effectively renamed in the early 2000s.

Understood. Thanks for the info, Harmy!

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 (Edited)

Harmy said:

BadCane said:

I’m kind of ashamed right now. I’m a 23 year old and been a fan for some 15-17 years by now and only TODAY I discovered this. I thought they were renamed back in 1997-1999, when the whole Prequel thing came to life.

There’s definitely no shame in thinking that, because while the episode number has always been there for ESB and ROTJ, they were never marketed as such until after the prequels - the first time an episode number was ever seen on a home-video release cover was the 2000 VHS re-release of the ‘97 SE, which had covers that tied in to the look of the Phantom Menace VHS release.
So, the episode numbers were there in the crawls but they were never really a part of the films’ names - they were called The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi until they were effectively renamed in the early 2000s.

All true. Thanks for the additional info.

Man, I wish I owned that 2000 set again. I had it as a kid, so I have major nostalgia for that set even it was the tainted 97SE 😃

she/her
mwah

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clutchins said:

The story goes George wanted the IV in the 1977 crawl, but Fox told him nobody would understand why the first movie in the series was actually the fourth. So he relented and just had “Star Wars” instead of “Episode IV A NEW HOPE”.

I read somewhere that there was a belief by George and/or the studio that the film might not do very well and would be the one and only Star Wars film; so it was only called “Star Wars”.

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 (Edited)

CatBus said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

clutchins said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

I have some other suggestions:

  1. I think the English mono tracks for Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back should be LPCM 1.0 instead of DTS-HD Master Audio since there is little difference in quality and/or size and LPCM has increased compatibility compared to DTS-HD Master Audio.

  2. I also think that the English 35mm Stereo mixes should be Dolby TrueHD instead of DTS-HD Master Audio so that there can be surround matrixing similar to the LaserDisc audio.
    Dolby TrueHD has this Dolby Pro Logic capability but for DTS-HD Master Audio, I’m not sure.
    There was apparently something called DTS Stereo which was used on some LaserDiscs and theatrical releases but I’m not sure if it can be used in the modernized DTS and DTS-HD codecs.
    I also think that the alternative English LaserDisc mixes should also be in Dolby TrueHD, if it is still allowed in the 48MBps bitrate limit of Blu-ray.

  3. What do you think of the isolated score being in LPCM 2.0? Already posted about it but barely anyone replied to it.

I second this

Wait. I also forgot:

  1. I think the 5.1 mixes should be in 6.1 or 7.1 instead (most likely 6.1)
    I actually talked to hairy_hen about this, he said he probably couldn’t perfectly test this as he only has a 5.1 system and is not entirely sure on how good it would sound.

I’m not sure of the value of this. If the whole point of the 5.1 mix is to approximate the theatrical 6-channel mix, wouldn’t adding extra channels move it further from that goal? It’s already a little bit off because 5.1 doesn’t quite equal 4.2–but there’s no home video 4.2 standard, so 5.1 is about as close as you can get. I suppose you could do 6.1 and have the two rear channels duplicate the center rear (effectively 4.1), but that seems a lot of effort (and duplicated audio data) for a dubious return, and you could accomplish more-or-less the same with a phantom center in 5.1 if that was your goal. It’d upmix to sound exactly like that on 6.1 systems anyway.

Now if the point was to make an entirely new and spiffy 6.1 or 7.1 mix, without any attempt to be authentic to the original, maybe that’d be fine.

Okay. But how about a 6.1 Matrix style (AKA: 5.1-ES)? Will it still be different from a regular 5.1 mix if you only have a 5.1 system?

I am not sure which official Blu-rays have a DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1 Matrix track but I do know that the Theatrical Editions of The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Extended was 6.1 Discrete) and the Japanese, Chinese-language and French Blu-ray releases of Howl’s Moving Castle (US and UK release was plain 5.1, even if you select the Japanese audio and 6.1 Matrix only available in Japanese audio).

Here is the LOTR: ROTK Theatrical Blu-ray: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Return-of-the-King-Blu-ray/1973/
Compared with the Extended Blu-ray: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Return-of-the-King-Blu-ray/19931/

Also, the Japanese release of Howl’s Moving Castle (misprinted as 6.1 Discrete but actually 6.1 Matrix according to BDInfo, also, English audio is always 5.1 regardless of version, it’s also the only Studio Ghibli film with 6.1 Matrix since everything else they did which was theatrically presented in DTS-ES 6.1 or Dolby Digital EX 6.1 is in 6.1 Discrete, but usually only in Japan): http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Howls-Moving-Castle-Blu-ray/28162/
Compared with the US version (US and UK Blu-ray is the only way to watch the English dubbed version with lossless DTS-HD Master Audio since Japan only has them in lossy DTS 5.1, unfortunately the Japanese audio is only plain 5.1 in the US and UK versions unlike the 6.1 Matrix audio in Japan): http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Howls-Moving-Castle-Blu-ray/48187/

Also, I love the fact that you can matrix the DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 tracks of the Dolby Stereo version to 4.0 with Dolby Pro Logic.

It doesn’t work for every DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Blu-ray I tested but it worked on the Studio Ghibli Blu-rays which were theatrically presented in Dolby Stereo and it also worked with some Criterion Blu-rays like Brazil.

And I’ve loved every pixel of it.
(Clarissa Darling, Clarissa Explains It All)

You’re so right.
(Kylo Ren, Star Wars: The Force Awakens)

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towne32 said:
Yes. And then in 1981, they made the first of many changes to Star Wars by renaming it A New Hope.

Technically, that wasn’t the first change, but I think it’s the first change most anyone really ever cares about.

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Discostu said:

George Lucas says that he already wanted the first Star Wars to be named Episode IV when it was originally released because it was the adaptation of the middle section of an extensive script he had written. But I am not sure how much truth is in that.

Gary Kurtz says otherwise, and quite understandably, anytime statements by Gary Kurtz and George Lucas are contradictory, I will believe Gary Kurtz.

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Alderaan said:

towne32 said:
Yes. And then in 1981, they made the first of many changes to Star Wars by renaming it A New Hope.

Technically, that wasn’t the first change, but I think it’s the first change most anyone really ever cares about.

Well, I’m wasn’t considering audio differences between different versions of the film released in 1977 “changes”. Just differences. Or did you have something else in mind?

The crawl is the first case of clear revisionism in Star Wars, I would say.

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This is so funny as i was just trying to look up info online about this very subject? but really couldnt find a definitive answer? so this brings up another question; with the re-release of SW in 1978 did they change or edit the opening crawl? also does anyone know if they already starting making any changes or alterations to the film at that point?

regards, joey

ps-i too also want to acknowledge the incredible work by Harmy and anyone else who assisted on the DE trilogy! thank you, thank you!
also hello towne32 , are you actually the legendary Harmy himself?

towne32 said:

BadCane said:

I just finished downloading the 2.5 version for ROTJ via tehparadox, but I find it odd that the Opening Crawl reads EPISODE VI. Is it the correct version?

Thank you very much, Harmy! Your work is incredible and I’m a huge fan. I’ve spread the word as much as I could here in Brasil.

Yes. Only Star Wars ever had a numberless version. When ESB came out, it was V, and they switched SW to IV.

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 (Edited)

joeyniji said:

This is so funny as i was just trying to look up info online about this very subject? but really couldnt find a definitive answer? so this brings up another question; with the re-release of SW in 1978 did they change or edit the opening crawl? also does anyone know if they already starting making any changes or alterations to the film at that point?

regards, joey

ps-i too also want to acknowledge the incredible work by Harmy and anyone else who assisted on the DE trilogy! thank you, thank you!
also hello towne32 , are you actually the legendary Harmy himself?

Nope, Harmy simply goes by the name Harmy here. I just edited a few things and did a bunch of changes to the color to change Star Wars (not Jedi) v2.5 to v2.7.

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 (Edited)

The crawl, afaik, wasn’t changed until 1981 for a double feature release with ESB to match its Episode V crawl.
There seem to have been some minor changes before then though - the shot of the rebel fighters lifting off from Yavin has been recomposited and the end credits were changed and I think a couple of other very minor changes were done. I’m not sure though if we know when these changes happened - might actually already have been done for the mono mix prints, which were struck after the 70mm and 35mm stereo prints were out.

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BadCane said:

I’m kind of ashamed right now. I’m a 23 year old and been a fan for some 15-17 years by now and only TODAY I discovered this. I thought they were renamed back in 1997-1999, when the whole Prequel thing came to life.

HA! Don’t feel bad, I’m still learning stuff all the time. Also, the 1997 SE was a film restoration - no matter how bizarre that might sound! Lucas made changes I think partially because he had the opportunity to do so while the restoration was done.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]