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The crows in Dumbo
Could you explain why this is racist ?
Dr. M
Song Of The South - many projects, much info & discussion thread (Released) — Page 40
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The crows in Dumbo
Could you explain why this is racist ?
Their speech patterns and mannerisms are obvious caricatures of black stereotypes of the era. Since they were done by white actors it’s basically “black-voice” instead of black-face, but it’s no less racist. One of them is also named Jim Crow. Someone at Disney clearly thought it would be funny to make the “Black Crows” black caricatures.
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Only Jim Crow, played by Cliff Edwards, was white. The rest were African American. Technically this means Disney was color blind when casting the crows.
It’s actually ironic that Jim Crow was white and in no way segregated from the other crows.
It’s only racist if you want to believe it was.
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Ok Density, thanks for the answer. I absolutely don’t agree with you though.
Doctor M said:
It’s only racist if you want to believe it was.
You’ve made the reply I had in mind, thanks !
Besides, the crows in Dumbo are awesome characters, easily the best of the movie, and they are the ones who give Dumbo the help he needs. So I really fail to understand how a highly positive representation of black people (along with the song genre they have created) would be offended to black people. As a kid I always thought “the crows are so cool and they believe in Dumbo”, so I would even dare to say they are anti-racist characters.
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I just don’t get the deal about this movie. The crows in Dumbo and especially the “What Makes the Red Man Red?” song in Peter Pan are at least as racist as anything in it, yet those movies are considered beloved classics that get all the works in uncensored re-releases and are still shown to children to this day as if there is nothing wrong with them. Yet Disney tries to act like this film never existed… while at the same time one of their most popular and beloved theme park attractions built decades afterward is a shrine to it? Talk about mixed signals!
When my girls got into Peter Pan I made an edit of the original movie that removed that song.
They’ll see the original one day, as I don’t believe these things should be removed from existence, but they won’t see it until they can understand what they’re seeing.
…
Come to think of it, this was a few years ago. They may be old enough now.
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I don’t see why some people are so adamant to deny obvious racial stereotypes. It’s only NOT racist if you want to believe it was as far as I’m concerned. It’s pretty fucking obvious. It doesn’t destroy the artistic merit of the film, but it’s just willful ignorance to deny it. The fact that the crows are portrayed positively doesn’t change it either. Uncle Remus is portrayed positively too. (Which is why my entire point was that one is no more offensive than the other and both should be released.) You may just say it’s “stereotypical” along the lines of Asians being good at math if you prefer rather than “racist,” but I don’t see a valid argument that the crows aren’t racial caricatures. It doesn’t offend me, it’s just the way it is and a product of its time.
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I don’t consider Song of the South to be racist, just to be dumb and boring (but the animated sections are very good). Is Gone with the wind racist because there is a black maid ? Is Big hero 6 racist because the main character is a science genius and looks japanese ? Is Thor racist because a white god is portrayed by Idris Elba ? Well, I don’t know but I’ve never known Dumbo was considered racist (or partly racist) before reading it here. I also don’t like the concept of “racial caricatures”, because aren’t characters in movies archetypal representations ? It’s a very complex question…
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nobody complains about the “Birth of a Nation” bluray. Disney has no qualms about using miss piggy to promote abortion, but god forbid they annoy some leftist troll with song of the south. sigh.
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So back to my original question, is it possible to match the colors of the 35mm DVD to the HD 16mm transfer and sync it to the laserdisc with LD audio?
she/her
mwah
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For the video, theoretically, yes, by using DrDre’s tool. You should be able to sync the audio as well, but that requires the sources to be perfectly matched.
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Dear all,
I hope this isn’t an annoying thing to ask. I discovered this film fairly recently, and have seen some mind-blowing clips on youtube of the 35mm scan. Is there any information about the HD version of this transfer?
I’ve seen the 16mm and am aware of the 35mm DVD. I realise it may be a confidential-ish subject, so any infor via PM would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much and Merry Christmas to everyone!
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I have a 1080p copy of the 35mm transfer, I believe from the spleen. I’ll PM you.
“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein
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Will you please PM me as well, colson?
she/her
mwah
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I have a 1080p copy of the 35mm transfer, I believe from the spleen. I’ll PM you.
That was never on the spleen. The only place I’ve seen that was on the now defunct Blu torrents site.
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You’re right, I didn’t get it from the spleen, but I will PM those who have asked. No more requests though, please.
“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein
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I won’t send a PM as requested, but if anyone knows where the 35mm scan of Song of the South could be acquired I’d appreciate it. I’ve been gifted the Taschen Disney Archives for Christmas and would love to see an HD quality version of this film after reading Leonard Maltin’s write up about it in there. I tried the Spleen and Usenet but only the DVD version is on the latter. Thanks!
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To me, history should be preserved as a reminder of what once was, to help move us forward. I watch stuff with my daughter and we discuss it. I find, for me, that this works best. I mean I just watched a documentary about the Vikings and how brutal they were. They took slaves, slaughtered people for conquest, and I don’t hear anyone asking for the heads of people descended from the Vikings.
Human beings are not perfect and we certainly have a ways to go. Erasing history to serve the purpose of a few just doesn’t fly with me.
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Yeah, nobody ever complains about family films where the Vikings are the good guys, and happen to ride dragons. 😉
Where were you in '77?
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Song of the South 35mm 1080p is now on the spleen. 😃
“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein
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That’s great - thanks very much! I’ll download and seed so others can benefit too.
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Hey guys, I’m going to be removing it from MySpleen. I’ve been contacted by the person who did the transfer from the print, and he requested that I not share it publicly.
If you’d like to get this and didn’t get a chance to, feel free to shoot me a PM.
“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein
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That was swift! I thought that would happen, so I nabbed it quickly. Then I realised I already had it - I have the untrimmed version (same encode, but the mkv has trimmed off the lead-in right at the start of the film, 180 frame total). It’s a decent transfer, but it’d be great if we could do our own 35mm scan sometime.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
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That was swift! I thought that would happen, so I nabbed it quickly. Then I realised I already had it - I have the untrimmed version (same encode, but the mkv has trimmed off the lead-in right at the start of the film, 180 frame total). It’s a decent transfer, but it’d be great if we could do our own 35mm scan sometime.
Is this the one from the guy who likes to put his transfer (and another film) on discs, or a different one entirely?
I hesitated to grab it, assuming it was the one from that guy.
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I’m pretty sure you know who it’s from. I’m happy to send it to you if you’re interested. The 16mm scan that’s on Myspleen was done by an OT.com member (that’s probably as much as I should say)! I actually didn’t realise I already had it, I’ve already found ways to “correct” some of the problem frames in avisynth too! 😄
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
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I’m pretty sure you know who it’s from. I’m happy to send it to you if you’re interested. The 16mm scan that’s on Myspleen was done by an OT.com member (that’s probably as much as I should say)! I actually didn’t realise I already had it, I’ve already found ways to “correct” some of the problem frames in avisynth too! 😄
I would say combining this and the 16mmm transfer might prove to at least give us a convincing HD release as long as the editing between both versions can be pulled off as seamless as possible.