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So, are all the Stormtroopers from IV-VI clones?.. — Page 2

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there is one problem with that explanation. It speaks of Stormtroopers retiring. Not enough time passed between AOTC and ROJ for Stormtroopers to be born, serve, grow old and retire.
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Hmmm... not a bad point. Unless you take into account the accelerated growth rate of the Clones as explained in AOTC. Maybe they do age quickly enough to have to retire. Should they survive, of course.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
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Kevin A
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somehow I find that difficult to believe.
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There are so many contradictions between OT, PT, EU and the material and info from the SW universe back from 1977 that it dosen't make sense to argue about those things anymore... There's no real right answer...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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The point is, the contradictions shouldn't have been there in the first place if Lucas has done the PT correctly. And what these contradictions prove is that Lucas's "original vision" of the Star Wars universe is constantly changing.
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hey guys here's a plot hole for you. if you are a planet who can by themselves creat armies that can take over/protect an entire galaxy, why wouldn't you yourself use that power to conquor. and you cant say that they weren't conquers, where would they get the technology and the know how to create armies otherwise. the clone armies were very well made with well trained soldiers and all.
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I think one can invent cloning technology and obtain DND samples without being conquerers. But it is a good question. I wonder if this planet was under Palp's control all along.
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Personal viewpoint is that the droids destroy most of the cloning facilities before Palp declares himself Emperor, so therefore there will be a limited number of clones so that they'd have to mix them in with regular humans.

Plus, if I were the Rebellion, those would be my first targets...
Which is the more foolish, the fool (the OT) or the fool who follows (the PT)?

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OK. I can accept that the Stormtroopers are all clones. I can accept accelerated growth as a means to close the time gap between AOTC/ROTS and ANH...

BUT....

What I can't accept is that EVERY freakin' clone is Jango Fett. THAT is what I think GL was using just to add some sort of perceived 'coolness' and a nod to the OT without thinking about it very much. To my mind THAT is the big plot hole/problem with the clones. Some beings in the SW galaxy would be more genetically capable of doing certain tasks than others. What makes one frakkin' bounty hunter so great at everything??

So what about this:

The intial troops that were oredered and that start the clone war were the Jango clones. Liking how they worked out, Palpatine enslaves the Kaminoes, takes over production and starts plucking DNA from other people/beings who would meet certain tasks better than others. This would account for different voices/actions/levels of skills of troops in the OT. And stealing DNA to make disposable people does just seem like an evil thing to do!

But of course, why wouldn't the Empire have used even better DNA stock... like say that of the crispy critter who was once Anakin Skywalker? Just think- with all those shittychlorians in his blood they could have had some truly KICK ASS troops! Force sensitive/trained Stormtroopers??? Whoo-hoo! Then again, they would be more likely to rebel against their masters I'd think. Maybe that's a whole new OT plot we missed!!! Or maybe those Anakin clones were the Imperial Guards... you know, the ones with all the liquor and women!!
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Forgive me if I'm overlooking something basic, but here's another PT plot hole that irritates me.

Why does Owen Lars act like he's never seen or heard of a droid named C-3PO in the original Star Wars, when in AOTC, C-3PO is actually working on his moisturizer farm? You can explain away 3PO's lack of memory by a memory wipe in Episode III, but what about Owen Lars? Does he have Alzeimhers maybe?

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“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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C'mon, what are the chances that Owen would remember a droid, the only droid we really see working on the farm, as annoying as C-3P0?

Maybe he was too busy gettin' some nookie from Beru
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1) When 3PO worked for Owen, he had silver plating.

2)Maybe he did somewhat remember, which is why he was so insistent on a memory wipe.

4

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We've had this discussion before and the consensus decision was that Owen and Beru do remember 3PO and R2. But to further protect Luke, as was their charge, they disavowed any knowledge of their existence.

On the part of the droids, it was likely a memory wipe. Remember 3PO constantly rambling on in ANH about how R2 claims to have been the property of "a Captain Antilles"? Well, 3PO doesn't remember it. I say it's a memory wipe and it didn't completely take with R2.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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Originally posted by: Bossk
We've had this discussion before and the consensus decision was that Owen and Beru do remember 3PO and R2. But to further protect Luke, as was their charge, they disavowed any knowledge of their existence.

On the part of the droids, it was likely a memory wipe. Remember 3PO constantly rambling on in ANH about how R2 claims to have been the property of "a Captain Antilles"? Well, 3PO doesn't remember it. I say it's a memory wipe and it didn't completely take with R2.


Most likely Threepio was running on a typical unstable Microsoft operating system and his memory was wiped just about every time he so much as bumped into a wall. R2, on the other hand, was probably Linux which assured that most regular users wouldn't even know how to completely wipe his memory.
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it's pretty much known now that C3PO has his mind wiped in the next film & R2 doesn't!

the difference in plating might explain Owen's lack of recognition come Ep4....the easiest & most plausible explanation is it's just a right major cock-up on GL behalf...he thought it would "cool" & "zany" to have Anakin make 3PO & have him stay with his mother....probably innocently forgetting Ep4's contradictions (or not really giving a shit)

but then it might not be...its IMO...

as for the Stormtroopers......the EU will always contradict the OT/PT & to be honest I think it's a given that the EU is to be disregarded in any way shape or form when it comes to the movies...

I don't think the Stormies were originally meant to be clones I think thats just a neat cunning idea GL came up with in the time that passed between the OT & making the PT....& now he's trying to pass it off as gospel..

i distinctly remember arguing the hell out of this with Jimbo over a year or so ago....hahahaha

anyways...if all the Stormies are clones why are all the officers different? & if they're different becuase they are conscripts isn't it fair to suggest that there might be conscripts amongst the Stormies ranks?

btw.....we really do have too much time on our hands if we are discussing this
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Originally posted by: die-jarjar-die
the EU will always contradict the OT/PT & to be honest I think it's a given that the EU is to be disregarded in any way shape or form when it comes to the movies...

There's even a disclaimer at the start of the old books that says if George Lucas ever decides to make any more movies (which he has since they were written) then forget everything you're reading.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
There's even a disclaimer at the start of the old books that says if George Lucas ever decides to make any more movies (which he has since they were written) then forget everything you're reading.


Are you serious? That's gotta make the author feel like shit... "hey, your book no longer fits my story line; it's crap; I'm disavowing any knowledge of its existence."

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Originally posted by: greencapt
Most likely Threepio was running on a typical unstable Microsoft operating system and his memory was wiped just about every time he so much as bumped into a wall. R2, on the other hand, was probably Linux which assured that most regular users wouldn't even know how to completely wipe his memory.


Heh heh. Yeah, that would definitely explain it. I'd stand by that theory.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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Just found this while browsing StarWars.com:

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The military soldiers unswervingly loyal to the Emperor, stormtroopers represented the most visible extension of Imperial might. They were shock troopers meant to strike with speed and accuracy, putting down insurrections and maintaining order on the farflung worlds of the Empire. Stormtroopers served both the ground-based armies of Palpatine's forces, and the space-based Imperial starfleet.

Stormtrooper training stressed complete indoctrination in the tenets of the New Order, and individuals would obey their officers without question, without regard to the rights of others or even to their own safety.

Stormtroopers abandoned individuality in exchange for their loyalty. They are completely encased in a white armored spacesuit shell, and are armed with blaster pistols or blaster rifles. Their helmets contain comlinks for long-range communications. Officers were denoted with colored shoulder pauldrons. Specific environments called for specially trained and equipped stormtroopers, such as the snowtroopers that besieged the ice world of Hoth and the lightly-armored scout troopers that patrolled the forests of Endor.


I know it doesn't answer any of these questions really, but it makes me think- at least at the time of its writing- that GL tends to think they are NOT clones. But maybe its just me.
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Originally posted by: Bossk
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
There's even a disclaimer at the start of the old books that says if George Lucas ever decides to make any more movies (which he has since they were written) then forget everything you're reading.


Are you serious? That's gotta make the author feel like shit... "hey, your book no longer fits my story line; it's crap; I'm disavowing any knowledge of its existence."


Actually the disclaimer was there years and years before the prequels and said something along the lines of, 'here's a star wars story but if Mr Lucas ever decides to make his own sequels or prequels then this is just a story and holds no bearing' or something like that.

War does not make one great.

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I think the disclaimer was probably good for the authors, as it gave them freedom to create ideas and situations without having to cross-check each point with Lucas in advance. That said, I feel for authors of the *later* books, who had to (from what I heard) stay within the context of whatever the previous authors had already laid down on the page.