logo Sign In

Info Wanted: What Is The Best Theatrical Version of Each Star Wars Movie?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hello there, forum dwellers. I’m the new guy in town. I’ve been reading through some forum posts about the various different edits and preservations people here have made of the Star Wars movies, and I must say this is fantastic. Y’all (<— excuse a Southern boy) have really done some great work getting around old Mr. Lucas’s obstinate refusal to release these movies the way they were seen in their original forms. With that in mind, I’ve seen many projects for each different movie, and I was wondering if y’all could help me out with something.

Can y’all help me find the best theatrical version of each movie? I don’t care if it’s a cam bootleg or a cleaned-up, color corrected visual masterpiece. I just want to see it how people first saw it. I’ll also need you to tell me which website I can find it on. I know there’s a stigma about linking to torrents here, and I understand because it could get the site in trouble.

I’ll put what I’ve figured out so far about each movie in further detail below. Feel free to correct, add on, or offer your opinion about which version is the best.

EPISODE IV
I know there’s Team Negative1’s Silver Screen Edition and Harmy’s Despecialized. I have heard before that the Silver Screen Edition is the most accurate because it literally is a scan of a 35mm film reel that was shown in theaters in 1977. Can someone shed some light on the differences for me? I’ve also heard that there’s some disparity between different audio mixes that were used in theaters during the original run. I know literally nothing about audio mixing, so without being too complicated, can you explain the differences in lines and sound effects?

EPISODE V
I know that there are two versions of the theatrical release. The 70mm was used for the premiere in select theaters across the country, and the 35mm was later completed and sent out for the second wave of showings. I have heard that Negative1’s Grindhouse edition uses a 35mm reel, and I assume it also uses the 35mm’s theatrical audio mix. Is there a way to obtain the 70mm version? I know it contains substantial differences in both video and audio.

EPISODE VI
I don’t know much about the theatrical version of Return of the Jedi. I’ve seen the 2006 Bonus DVD “Theatrical Version”, but apparently that’s not the real theatrical version. I think Harmy made a Grindhouse version for it, but I don’t know if the source he used was one of several different theatrical releases, like with The Empire Strikes Back.

EPISODE I
This is where I get a little fuzzy. I want to say Adywan made a theatrical version, but I’m not sure. I do know there are some changes in the 2004 DVDs (we won’t discuss the adulterations of the 2011 BDs), but I’m not sure if they’ve been found and preserved.

EPISODE II
I know that there were a few different theatrical versions: the 35mm, the DLP (digital), and the IMAX. From what I understand, the IMAX had no additions but was simply cut for time, so I’m not concerned with it. I think the digital version is identical to the DVD. I know Centropy (which, from my understanding, was a bootleg group that got shut down by the FBI in 2005) made a cam release of the 35mm in 2002 containing Padme’s different lines, the extra speeders in the background of the Coruscant chase scene, and the alternate mechanical hand shot, among other minor differences.

EPISODE III
I haven’t heard anything about alterations from the theatrical version to the DVD, other than an optical wipe during the Mustafar scene that was changed to a straight cut in the DVD and restored in the Blu-ray.

EPISODE VII
I’ve heard a little about the credits being extended with alternate music, the First Order spy at Maz’s bar whispering audibly instead of silently, and BB-8 chirping during his closeup shot while Rey, Finn, and BB-8 are escaping from Niima Outpost. Is this correct, and if so, is there a version containing those changes that is on the Internet?

ROGUE ONE
Nothing. Is it too early to discuss this yet? LOL

So that’s what I know. Which is the best, most accurate theatrical version of each movie, and where can I find it? Thank y’all. Sorry for the wall of text.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Wow! I will not attempt to answer all that!
If band width and HD space were a big factor and I wanted
to have a nice Star Wars binge I would watch Harmys:
SW 2.7
ESB 2.0
ROTJ 2.5
I have the ACVHD & .MKV versions of all those plus the earlier releases.
Those have the best image quality and sound. (my opinion)
Then I would be curious about TN1s Star Wars which is very nice, dirt & all!
You might want to read the 1st page of each thread about those projects, that
would explain all the differences in audio tracks, subtitles ect.
As far as those “Other” films, I would just watch my retail versions as I
don’t know of, or care about, any changes made to them.
One point of interest though, any fan preservation here that was synced to
the “GOUT” discs will be able to use the same audio tracks. In other words
the DTS sound track from Harmys 2.7 would “mux” into the TN1 Star Wars.

oops… I think the cows have come home!

I thought I recognized your foul stench when I entered this forum!

Author
Time

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I do have one question…

One point of interest though, any fan preservation here that was synced to
the “GOUT” discs will be able to use the same audio tracks. In other words
the DTS sound track from Harmys 2.7 would “mux” into the TN1 Star Wars.

Could you clarify what exactly this means? Like what is GOUT, what do you mean by “synced to”, what is DTS, what is mux?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I do have one question…

One point of interest though, any fan preservation here that was synced to
the “GOUT” discs will be able to use the same audio tracks. In other words
the DTS sound track from Harmys 2.7 would “mux” into the TN1 Star Wars.

Could you clarify what exactly this means? Like what is GOUT, what do you mean by “synced to”, what is DTS, what is mux?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

Episode IV
Team -1 is as you say a scan of a theatrical 35mm print, and Harmy’s despecialized edition uses the 2011 Blu-ray as the base, and “undos” all changes using 35mm scans, custom matte paintings, GOUT upscales, custom transitions etc.
In other words, Team Negative 1 release is the REAL theatrical version, the Despecialized edition looks better but some of the parts (e.g. the transitions) are re-created and not authentic.
There have been 5 different audio mixes done for the pre-1997 versions, the 1977 stereo mix, the 1977 4.2 mix (the same “audio content”, just mixed in more channels), and the 1978(?) mono mix (brand new mix using alternate takes, new sound effects etc.). Then there was the 1985 home video remix and the 1993 remix. A nice description of the mixes is here : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-sound-mixes/id/15294

Episode V
As far as I know the 70mm version was not preserved. There were also 3 different mixes made, a 6 channel mix, a stereo mix and a mono mix.

Episode VI
I think the best version is either the Despecialized edition or the Team Negative 1 “grindhouse” release.

Episode I
Adywan’s DVD wasn’t the theatrical version, he missed at least one change (the missing CGI bridge). If you want the theatrical version you have to get either one of the TV braodcasts or one of the laserdisc transfers.

Episode II
As far as I know only CAM bootlegs are available. And they all look like crap.

Episode III
There were more changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiCn0O4aF_8

Author
Time

GOUT = George’s version of the Original Unaltered Trilogy = 2006 bonus DVDs
mux = multiplex = "join different streams into 1 file"
sync = synchronize

Author
Time
 (Edited)

My preference for each:

Star Wars: SSE 1.6. It’s 1080p and 100% the theatrical version.

Empire: Grindhouse, for the same reason as Star Wars. However, its colors aren’t very good and it’s not GOUT synced, and it’s super beat up.

Jedi: Grindhouse, for the same reason as the other two. Despecialized 2.5 is a great choice too.

TPM: I mostly watch the DVD version, but there’s also the Laserdisc.

AOTC: DVD

ROTS: DVD

Author
Time

For the OT, ask yourself this question: is what you’re looking for exactly what people saw in the theaters, projection prints with dirt/scratches/burn marks included, or are you looking for what a respectful Blu-ray release would have looked like, going back to original negatives and getting a high-res scan that actually shows a little more detail than would have been visible in the theatre, but still using all-original elements.

If it’s the latter, I’d recommend Harmy’s Despecialized for all three. SW 2.7 is the one I’d recommend, although it’s still far from perfect. I can see why people would prefer Silver Screen even if they’re looking for the respectful Blu-ray treatment, so it’s worth a look, but it’s not for me. For ROTJ, 2.5 is easily the best presentation IMO. ESB 2.0 is nearly as good as ROTJ 2.5, but not quite. A few warts that will hopefully be fixed soon in ESB 2.5. Yes, they technically include SE elements, but at this point it’s nearly impossible to find them unless you’re a much, much pickier fan than me.

There are lots of original audio options. Star Wars in 1977 had three different soundtracks (6-channel, stereo, and mono), which had different content (although the 6-channel and stereo were very, very similar). All of them are “original” (and I’m ignoring the fold-down options because that confuses matters even more). Lots of people here like mono best, because it’s what most theatres were equipped to play in 77. I prefer the 6-channel reconstruction because, again, it’s what a respectful Blu-ray release would have sounded like. Empire had three original mixes, the 35mm stereo, the 16mm mono, and the 70mm 6-channel. The 70mm version was a different video cut, and we don’t have a good preservation of that (there’s an 8mm digest which has bits of it, if you want your mind blown). The 6-channel option you get with Despecialized is essentially just a tasteful upmix of the original stereo mix. Jedi only had stereo and 6-channel, and again our 6-channel option is essentially a tasteful upmix or the original stereo, since we don’t have any references for the 6-channel (but we think it’s content-identical).

The 2006 bonus DVD were the theatrical video, as far as anyone’s able to say with certainty (there’s a few dubious quibbles). The main gripe is that they just suck, quality-wise. Also the audio isn’t theatrical at all, which is most relevant for Star Wars and Empire, since there are content differences between the mixes they used and the theatrical mixes (they used the 93 remixes for all three films).

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time

I’m sorry, I’m still a little confused. If a fan preservation audio is synced to the GOUT discs, does that mean that the audio is the same as on the GOUT bonus discs?

And Harmy’s track muxing into the Silver Screen Edition is basically just saying that the audio tracks from Harmy’s Despecialized Editions would also be accurate to use with the video from the Silver Screen Editions?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

No, synced is a timing thing. All GOUT-synced audio will work with any GOUT-synced video, so people’s lips match up with the words coming out of their mouths, etc. Silver Screen isn’t GOUT-synced, so you are a little more limited in your audio options (or you add dark frames for the missing video to make it GOUT-synced, either way).

They don’t sync because projection prints are often missing a frame or two at the ends of reels. Also the GOUT may very well have included more frames than any theatrical print would have included. Either way, the audio for one won’t line up with the video from the other.

All of Harmy’s versions are GOUT-synced, so you’ve got the widest range of audio options. Film scan-based preservations can’t really be GOUT-synced unless you add the extra frames from another source (or blank frames) at the reel ends. There are lots and lots of GOUT-synced audio tracks, not just the tracks from the GOUT.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yaboykevin01 said:

I’m sorry, I’m still a little confused. If a fan preservation audio is synced to the GOUT discs, does that mean that the audio is the same as on the GOUT bonus discs?

No it means that the audio is in sync with the video from the GOUT discs. If two different preservations are GOUT synced it means that audio from one will play in perfect sync with the other.

And Harmy’s track muxing into the Silver Screen Edition is basically just saying that the audio tracks from Harmy’s Despecialized Editions would also be accurate to use with the video from the Silver Screen Editions?

Yeah basically.

Author
Time

Wow, thank y’all so much for the responses.

CatBus said:

Star Wars in 1977 had three different soundtracks (6-channel, stereo, and mono), which had different content (although the 6-channel and stereo were very, very similar).

I’ve seen some comparisons of the stereo and mono before. Do you know exactly what the differences between the 6-channel and the stereo were?

Empire had three original mixes, the 35mm stereo, the 16mm mono, and the 70mm 6-channel. The 70mm version was a different video cut, and we don’t have a good preservation of that (there’s an 8mm digest which has bits of it, if you want your mind blown).

Do you know which versions (official home release or fan preservation) use each TESB mix? I’m inclined to believe the Grindhouse would use the 35mm stereo, insofar as it also uses the 35mm video. Assuming the 70mm 6-channel audio is lost along with the video, is there a good place to find the 16mm mono track?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

I think I understand about the sync thing. It’s synced to GOUT, but not to, say, the 2004 DVD because of additional scenes like the Jabba scene, which would throw off the whole thing. Sound effects and takes of lines are different according to the track, but it would still line up with when they happen in the movie. Is that right?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

yaboykevin01 said:
Assuming the 70mm 6-channel audio is lost along with the video, is there a good place to find the 16mm mono track?

There exists an in-theater recording of the audio but the quality is terrible and plus it includes audience reactions etc.
The 16mm mono mix can be found in Puggo Strikes Back.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yaboykevin01 said:

I’ve seen some comparisons of the stereo and mono before. Do you know exactly what the differences between the 6-channel and the stereo were?

They’re extremely similar. I know there’s a kind of spitting sound Luke makes in the part where he says Han’s going to get himself killed. It’s in the 6-channel but not the stereo.

Empire had three original mixes, the 35mm stereo, the 16mm mono, and the 70mm 6-channel. The 70mm version was a different video cut, and we don’t have a good preservation of that (there’s an 8mm digest which has bits of it, if you want your mind blown).

Do you know which versions (official home release or fan preservation) use each TESB mix? I’m inclined to believe the Grindhouse would use the 35mm stereo, insofar as it also uses the 35mm video. Assuming the 70mm 6-channel audio is lost along with the video, is there a good place to find the 16mm mono track?

It’s included with Despecialized, originally from Puggo. You are correct that Grindhouse uses 35mm stereo. Never say never on the 70mm cut, but yeah, nothing good-quality has surfaced. The 8mm digest is the best we really have, and it’s barely worth mentioning.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yaboykevin01 said:

I think I understand about the sync thing. It’s synced to GOUT, but not to, say, the 2004 DVD because of additional scenes like the Jabba scene, which would throw off the whole thing. Sound effects and takes of lines are different according to the track, but it would still line up with when they happen in the movie. Is that right?

No, it’s even more specific. Let’s say the GOUT has 170,000 frames (made up number alert). Then let’s say Silver screen has 169,880 frames. It’s the same movie, same version, same cut, same scenes, but one simply runs a bit longer than the other because of extra frames at reel changes. And the audio from one won’t work with video from the other. It only takes two frames for audio to be annoyingly out-of-sync, and they’d be off by a lot more than that. It would be like an 80’s Hong Kong dub, except where the sound effects don’t line up either.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yaboykevin01 said:

I’m sorry, I’m still a little confused. If a fan preservation audio is synced to the GOUT discs, does that mean that the audio is the same as on the GOUT bonus discs?

And Harmy’s track muxing into the Silver Screen Edition is basically just saying that the audio tracks from Harmy’s Despecialized Editions would also be accurate to use with the video from the Silver Screen Editions?

No & Yes, it’s a matter of timing, the GOUT discs being used as a baseline.
Same as with subtitles, using the GOUT as a standard, any sound track or subtitle
that is in sync with the GOUT discs will work with most of these projects, the
exceptions are mentioned above. It does NOT mean it’s the SAME audio as the GOUT.
Files like .MP4 & .MKV are just containers and can hold MANY tracks.
If I open up SW 2.7 .MKV file in a Editor (MKVtools) I would see several audio tracks
from 6 Chan English to many foreign language tracks and commentaries. All are synced
the same and when playing the film you can choose between them just like you do with
a retail BluRay. The same applies to Catbus’s subtitles, which I believe I could
add up to around 30!

Edit: Wow! I’m late on this one, I’ll let Cat field these! LOL!!!

I thought I recognized your foul stench when I entered this forum!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Faithwyn said:

The same applies to Catbus’s subtitles, which I believe I could
add up to around 30!

Edit: Wow! I’m late on this one, I’ll let Cat field these! LOL!!!

Aw, shucks 😉 Also, FWIW, the subtitles in Project Threepio are GOUT-synced, but the project includes utilities that allow people to resync them to other sources. Subtitles are easier to resync than audio, so it can be fully automated.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time

Ok, I think I understand. Thanks for clarifying!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

yaboykevin01 said:

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I do have one question…

One point of interest though, any fan preservation here that was synced to
the “GOUT” discs will be able to use the same audio tracks. In other words
the DTS sound track from Harmys 2.7 would “mux” into the TN1 Star Wars.

Could you clarify what exactly this means? Like what is GOUT, what do you mean by “synced to”, what is DTS, what is mux?

pittrek said:

GOUT = George’s version of the Original Unaltered Trilogy = 2006 bonus DVDs
mux = multiplex = "join different streams into 1 file"
sync = synchronize

What does “grindhouse” mean in the context of Star Wars?

Author
Time

Honestly I watch Harmy’s as my go-to versions, but I simply adore the Silver Screen and Grindhouse editions as well and put them in rotation just for the old-school film house vibe. I’ve really been enjoying SW 2.7. So it’s nice having the “pure and clean” as well as the gritty versions of each film.

TFA is just the blu-ray release, and I don’t acknowledge the existence of the prequels, so that’s that.

Author
Time

A grindhouse is an old movie theater. The Grindhouse versions of the original trilogy are restorations of original theatrical film reels shown in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

So if I were interested in finding the Silver Screen Edition of Star Wars by Team Negative1, where could I get it?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

Author
Time

yaboykevin01 said:

A grindhouse is an old movie theater. The Grindhouse versions of the original trilogy are restorations of original theatrical film reels shown in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

Thank you. I looked around OT.com but couldn’t find an answer. Looked on Wikipedia and got several meanings; exploitation films, quick turn around of films, relationship to burlesque.