logo Sign In

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 5

Author
Time
Post link
Good suggestions guys.
you could mirror the opening shot, but you couldn't keep the opening crawl.

Correct. I would love to make it pan down so as to fit with the other movies, but can't at this time because I can't redo the crawl myself.

-Corde's line "I've failed you" makes no sense. It was pretty much her job to die in Amidala's place, so that should be cut.

I've already cut it! I've actually made quite a few other cuts to this, and I've also slowed down the longest shot of Corde's face (dead) so as to end the scene with her face (and a wipe to the following scene). Gives it a much darker tone.

-When Padme arrives in Palpatine's office, Yoda tells her "Seeing you alive, brings warm feelings to my heart." Besides just being really awkward, Padme totally ignores him! So that should be cut.


Long gone! That line always irritated me.

-Also, Padme just comes out and says "I think Count Dooku was behind it." Um...why would she think that? She offers NO motive. Of course this is to set up Count Dooku's character in the absense of the Lost 20 scene (which hopefully Lucas will restore in a future release), so I'm not sure what can be done with this.


That is not as easy. I'd really love to cut that, but I don't see another way to introduce Dooku's character (aside from the opening scroll). Maybe he doesn't need to be introduced. I don't know, so I'm still kind of puzzling over that one.


I think the the Senate scene at the begining should have been kept in. You can always edit it back in and make a few cuts to the Chancelor's office scene that follows it immediately chronologically.


This might wind up in the final cut (not sure right now) but is not reinstated now for the following reasons:

1. Contains tracked music from scene directly afterwards
2. More exposition, which makes later scenes less interesting. Gets political.

As I said, I'm still thinking about it, and I might actually put in an edited version.

I edit the deleted scenes as well as the original ones. A good example of this is the scene with Padme's family. I've cut various corny lines (like "It's obvious he has feelings for you") in that one as well. Remember, one of my goals is to make the films feel older.

I should also add that I've gotten to the chase on Coruscant on my rough cut of this edit (with inferior image quality). I'm just doing it for reference and pacing, before I start on the full quality version.

So there is some progress taking place; I just have a busy and erratic schedule.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman,

Everything sounds great so far, was just wondering what prog do you intend on using for the final editing of the video?

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
I'm doing the reference cut on Nero (kind of hard to work with, and not many options). For the final editing, I'm going to use Roxio VideoWave (along with MGI VideoWave, ArcSoft, and VirtualDub). Even so, I'm realizing more and more that for the types of things I want to do (including soft wipes and transitions, filters, and complicated color modifiying), I might need to invest in a higher-end program like Adobe (I've read that it is very good). I might purchase that in the near future and learn to use it.

As for the audio, I'm using AudioHQ, SoundForge, Cakewalk Pyro, and Sonar to do the sound mix, and I'll need every bit of it for the dubbing.

Thanks for asking!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman
I'm doing the reference cut on Nero (kind of hard to work with, and not many options). For the final editing, I'm going to use Roxio VideoWave (along with MGI VideoWave, ArcSoft, and VirtualDub). Even so, I'm realizing more and more that for the types of things I want to do (including soft wipes and transitions, filters, and complicated color modifiying), I might need to invest in a higher-end program like Adobe (I've read that it is very good). I might purchase that in the near future and learn to use it.

As for the audio, I'm using AudioHQ, SoundForge, Cakewalk Pyro, and Sonar to do the sound mix, and I'll need every bit of it for the dubbing.

Thanks for asking!


To chime in my 2 cents, instead of buying Adobe Premiere (and don't get me wrong- I've edited on Adobe Premiere and it IS nice, but can be slow and is a system hog like most Adobe software) you might look into Sony's Vegas http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/products/vegasfamily.asp.

It has most (if not all now) of the same features as Premiere and has a much nicer flow to the user interface, IMHO.
Author
Time
Post link
I like your ideas, Trooperman!

I'm thinking of making my own edit of Ep 2 once I get some time. I like what MagnoliaFan did and would use his as a template so I guess it would be somewhat of a hybrid perhaps. Just a few nips here and there. Anyway, some of these are probably pretty silly, but oh well.

-drop the "I think" from when Anakin says it's a short cut. He's supposed to be cocky, right?

-drop Obi-Wan's "Good call, my young padawan" line

-drop Padme's "R2 what are you doing here?" line and just have Threepio tell them he has a message.

-drop the seperatist dialogue/scene on Geonosis. I think it's unnecessary (not to mention poorly done). The seperatists are already there. Why do they need to pledge their allegiance? I would only leave in Dooku speaking.

-When Obi-Wan picks up the dart, I would overdub "Kamino". While it might not work perfectly, it would eliminate any need for Dex's "diner". I would still leave in Obi-Wan's search for information on Kamino. I know Cleveland is in northern Ohio, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't need directions to get there.

-When Obi-Wan is chained to the post and and says "Good job" I would splice in a shot of the full stadium as he looks up.

-drop the assembly line scene. Show Padme landing and riding the conveyor belt away, then show her being caught by Geonosians. Show Anakin jumping down and being surrounded by Jango and droidekas. I'd even go as far to drop the R2 and Threepio all together from Geonosis (assumably they'd stay on Padme's ship) but this might cue music problems during the arena battle. I know that might be blasphemous considering the droids are always in the think of things in every movie, but I feel they added very little to the Geonosis scenes.

-Restore the hiss of Anakin's lightsaber in the Tuskan camp

-Restore the first "Tell us" when Anakin is accosting Zam

I'm not sure what I would do about the Dooku duel(s).





40,000 million notches away
Author
Time
Post link
Darth Editous has been helping me with a similar issue on panning down vs the original pan-up on Ep II. We've almost gotten something for everybody's review. His work looks fan-damn-tastic!

I'll invite him to comment on the specifics, but as I understand it, he gradually flipped the starfield during the length of the crawl so that at the beginning, it matched the background behind the title card and by the pan down, it was flipped vertically. It's almost perfect. I'm having some recompression issues in Womble that's making it look less than perfect, but once we resolve those, it'll be well-worth posting.

I re-wrote the crawl for my own edit. I'll reveal that when it's ready for posting.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
Post link
I'll invite him to comment on the specifics, but as I understand it, he gradually flipped the starfield during the length of the crawl so that at the beginning, it matched the background behind the title card and by the pan down, it was flipped vertically. It's almost perfect. I'm having some recompression issues in Womble that's making it look less than perfect, but once we resolve those, it'll be well-worth posting.

Oh boy! This is really exciting. I just have a couple questions:

1. Was this accomplished by taking frames of the regular starfield and the vertical starfield and slowly fading them together throughout the crawl?

2. By posting, do you mean through file download or torrent?

This is great; if I can get my hands on this, I'll definitely use it for my edit.

And now to the edit:

-drop the "I think" from when Anakin says it's a short cut. He's supposed to be cocky, right?

That's a good point. Why would he display a lack of confidence in his own judgement? He wants to reassure Obi-Wan that he knows what he's doing.

-drop Obi-Wan's "Good call, my young padawan" line

It has been shortened to "Good call."

-drop Padme's "R2 what are you doing here?" line and just have Threepio tell them he has a message.

Very good idea.

-drop the seperatist dialogue/scene on Geonosis. I think it's unnecessary (not to mention poorly done). The seperatists are already there. Why do they need to pledge their allegiance? I would only leave in Dooku speaking.


Definitely. I hated the CG creatures (especially the robot), and it wouldn't make sense for them to pledge their alleigance, already being there. This is a definite change.

-When Obi-Wan picks up the dart, I would overdub "Kamino". While it might not work perfectly, it would eliminate any need for Dex's "diner". I would still leave in Obi-Wan's search for information on Kamino. I know Cleveland is in northern Ohio, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't need directions to get there.


Earlier in this thread, I explained that I will be solving that problem by dubbing the analysis robot in the deleted scene found on the DVD. The robot will identify the dart for Obi-Wan, eliminating Dex and the diner.

-drop the assembly line scene. Show Padme landing and riding the conveyor belt away, then show her being caught by Geonosians. Show Anakin jumping down and being surrounded by Jango and droidekas. I'd even go as far to drop the R2 and Threepio all together from Geonosis (assumably they'd stay on Padme's ship) but this might cue music problems during the arena battle. I know that might be blasphemous considering the droids are always in the think of things in every movie, but I feel they added very little to the Geonosis scenes.


Look earlier in this thread. I have solved the problems with that scene. R2 does save Padme, but the whole incident with 3PO is cut, as is the droid's action in the arena.

I'm not sure what I would do about the Dooku duel(s).

Ditto.

Good suggestions though!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Lust leave Dokuu's duels as they are but cut out the lighting and Yoda's Aerobatics.

4

Author
Time
Post link
When is the release date? Is it going to be available to the general public? Will we have to pay for it?

Also I watched the film a couple of times and noticed the bit on Kamino, where Lama Su is talking to Obi Wan, and it just slowed the entire film down.

Oh, and another thing which I don't like is on Geonosis, there are a couple of shots of the Geonosians looking at Obi Wan. I watched the film and tried skipping through those shots. It worked a lot better without them.

Are you going to keep the entire scene where Dooku is interrogating Obi Wan?

Yeah, and i think your project's really great!

Maybe you should think about putting some shots of the Anakin from Ep3 (if you can)? But I guess this wouldn't be loyal to the OT.
If no-one can see the Force, is it really there?
Author
Time
Post link
Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-When Obi-Wan picks up the dart, I would overdub "Kamino". While it might not work perfectly, it would eliminate any need for Dex's "diner". I would still leave in Obi-Wan's search for information on Kamino. I know Cleveland is in northern Ohio, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't need directions to get there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Earlier in this thread, I explained that I will be solving that problem by dubbing the analysis robot in the deleted scene found on the DVD. The robot will identify the dart for Obi-Wan, eliminating Dex and the diner.



Sorry, I missed that part. But sounds like really cool idea!
40,000 million notches away
Author
Time
Post link
Hi Jeten San Hett; welcome to the forum.

When is the release date?

I don't know. I'm a busy guy! With any luck, though, it will come out late this year.

Is it going to be available to the general public? Will we have to pay for it?

I think what I'm going to do is mail a copy to Rikter (with no return address), and then let him distribute it as he pleases. I don't want to be selfish with this, but I also know that this is of questionable legality, and I don't want any personal information attached to it. I'll also probably include a message that says that the user must own the official AOTC DVD, for extra cover. But this whole thread is kind of neat, because you're influencing me as I'm creating this. At the end, there may be specific changes that can specifically be credited to one person or another, which I'd imagine would be fun to watch.

Also I watched the film a couple of times and noticed the bit on Kamino, where Lama Su is talking to Obi Wan, and it just slowed the entire film down.

I actually liked that part. However, I have muted one or two lines of Lama-Su's dialogue.

Oh, and another thing which I don't like is on Geonosis, there are a couple of shots of the Geonosians looking at Obi Wan. I watched the film and tried skipping through those shots. It worked a lot better without them.


Maybe you should think about putting some shots of the Anakin from Ep3 (if you can)? But I guess this wouldn't be loyal to the OT.


Please explain; not specific enough for me to figure out.

Are you going to keep the entire scene where Dooku is interrogating Obi Wan?


I haven't cut any of it yet; is there a specific part you'd like cut? Please suggest.



Lust leave Dokuu's duels as they are but cut out the lighting and Yoda's Aerobatics.


The whole duel is still a work-in-progress, so I'll let you know when I figure out exactly what I'm going to do.


-----------------------------
Another change I have just integrated: I always hated how Padme bossed Anakin around inside the ship on Tatooine (before they left for Geonosis). Especially cringeworthy was the line, "If you want to protect me...you'll just have to come along." And Anakin, who's supposed to be so cocky and strong-willed, smiles passively and gives in a few seconds after having argued the other side very strongly. I couldn't stomach the scene. But- here's where completely re-dubbing Anakin comes in really handy.

Anakin: But you heard Master Windu. He gave me strict orders to stay here. (very serious).

I've spliced in a shot of Padme's hand pushing a button- only I've cropped it so that her white sleeve does not show, making it Anakin's hand. And during this shot,

Anakin: Therefore, we're leaving immediately. Cut to shot of Padme staring at Anakin disbelievingly. Cut to the shot of Anakin smiling (which has different meaning now) and they take off.

A bit of humour, and also establishes that Anakin made believe he would follow Windu's orders, only to turn around 3 seconds later and break them. Padme also contributes; she just no longer completely bosses Anakin around.

Thanks for the input!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
How did you crop the film so the 16:9 ratio is still in?
If no-one can see the Force, is it really there?
Author
Time
Post link
Understand that I haven't actually cropped it yet. What I do is I use the unaltered shots for the rough cut, and then I make a list of the shots I need to crop for the final version. And what I'll be doing is taking just the widescreen, cropping it so as to preserve the exact dimensions, and then insert the anamorphic bars afterwards. I'll encode these shots separately as anamorphic before I splice them in with the rest.

I know that this is little stuff, but I'm going to try to raise the brightness on specific frames in shots when blasters are fired, to make it look more like the original SW. I think it'll look more realistic and not as "CG".

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman
I know that this is little stuff, but I'm going to try to raise the brightness on specific frames in shots when blasters are fired, to make it look more like the original SW. I think it'll look more realistic and not as "CG".



NO!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT DO THAT! That is the one thing I cannot stand about the OT. I swear am I the only one that gets a headache from the screen flashing white every time a blaster is fired!? Please don't do that!

4

Author
Time
Post link
If nobody besides me likes it that way, then I won't do it (for general release, anyway). It would be less work anyhow.

But if I did do it, it would probably be more subtle than in the original SW. I do think that there were times that the flashes were a bit overdone.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Why don't you just make a white "muzzle flash" picture in photoshop with a blue background, then chroma key it until you get a nice feathered effect, and put the opacity right down. Make this 6 frames long, and key frame the opacity and the shape to go up then down as the shot progresses. Then just put that over all the blaster nozzles. You can adjust the opacity depending on your view. also, you might want to make it more yellow.
If no-one can see the Force, is it really there?
Author
Time
Post link
The comment was made a while back (in another thread) that watching the CG computer graphics of the prequels in black-in-white made the effects look more realistic. I tried it and it was absolutely true- the black-and-white actually looked better.

I recently began to wonder, though, how well it would work to de-saturate the colors on some obviously CG scenes to make them look more realistic (like the Jedi Council room and the Droid Factory). It makes an amazing difference. It looks like you're actually in a real room- the bright, phony looking colors are muted and realistic. I am so pleased with how this simple adjustment improved these scenes that I am probably going to use it a lot in the time to come.

Another change, pertaining to the moment when Boba Fett says: "Get him. Fire!" If there was ever a moment when dramatic music was needed, that was it. So what I've done is taken a dramatic cue from "The Wrath of Khan" and started it when Slave I races towards camera, firing. And it was an amazing feeling to watch it. It felt like Star Wars again! (ironically enough, by using a musical clip from Star Trek). I've done it so that the brass hit two dramatic chords as the ship races towards camera, and it's synchronized so that the following orchestral crash coincides with the cut to Obi-Wan's cockpit. It works beautifully, and is really an amazing moment.

Why don't you just make a white "muzzle flash" picture in photoshop with a blue background, then chroma key it until you get a nice feathered effect, and put the opacity right down. Make this 6 frames long, and key frame the opacity and the shape to go up then down as the shot progresses. Then just put that over all the blaster nozzles. You can adjust the opacity depending on your view. also, you might want to make it more yellow.


Good advice! Thank you very much; I think I'll do that.

Technical stuff: The finished film will not contain 5.1 surround sound. I simply don't feel as though I can do a very good job on it, considering the new character voices and the amount of stereo-only material I'm putting in. So it will be PCM stereo, and I will actually probably use the audio from the pan-scan VHS (filtered) for the base, because not only is it uncompressed, it's Pro-Logic encoded. So the final mix might actually wind up with 4 matrixed channels; I don't know.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
watching the CG computer graphics of the prequels in black-in-white made the effects look more realistic. I tried it and it was absolutely true- the black-and-white actually looked better.

Sorry, I don't really get it. Are you going to put all the CGI shots in AotC into black and white? Man, thats a lot of shots! That might really destroy the film - maybe some people didn't realise that the b/w shots were FX shots. Also, what about the "one element" CGI shots?
If no-one can see the Force, is it really there?
Author
Time
Post link
No no no! Sorry I didn't explain myself well enough.

Nothing is going to be black-and-white at all, but for certain scenes where the computer graphics looked too bright and phony looking, I have desaturated the colors by about 60% (differently depending on the scene), so as to mute the color palette and make it look more realistic. There is no loss of brightness, detail, or clarity, and I'm not changing any of the FX (aside from the flashes we were talking about). I simply experimented with putting it about halfway between full-color and black-and-white, and it looks more gritty and more like the OT.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
That's great. I wonder if it would work in the Coruscant chase scene.

BTW, I still say leave the muzzle flash out entirely. It isn't really realistic to have a bright white flash everytime a blaster fires. It's not like they have any powder to burn. The only light from a blaster should come from the beam itself.

4

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman --

So many things to comment on and my DVD player is rejecting my copy of "The Clone War" so I cannot yet give the detailed comments I intend to.

But I want to toss out an initial note, if I may:

I want someone to emphasize how important (and overlooked) Anakin's bad dreams are to understanding him. If we understood at the beging of AOTC that he was having accurate premonitions that his mother is being tortured, but Obi Wan and the council were preventing him from going to her -- then everything he did would make more sense.

This concept should be really valuable in re-editing this film. It'll make almost anything Anakin does feel more natural because we would know up front how difficult it is for him every day to stop himself from running off to his mom.

I think this can be done, but I want to give specific notes when I get my disc working again -- assuming it's even interesting to you.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
I think this can be done, but I want to give specific notes when I get my disc working again -- assuming it's even interesting to you.

Are you suggesting showing actual force-vision dreams, akin to what Luke has in ESB and Anakin apparently does in RotS? That sounds very interesting. I think that aspect of the Force has been a missed opportunity in the saga; there's all this talk of meditation, visions, and forseeing the future, but we never really get to see much of it.

Author
Time
Post link
Have you decided on a name yet?

Which of the CGI shots are you going to desaturate?

Of the "half bluescreen half CG" shots, are you going to desaturate parts of the shot?
If no-one can see the Force, is it really there?
Author
Time
Post link
I think desaturating the CGI is an interesting idea. It's funny how to me, the CGI looks more realistic the worse the quality of the picture is (like vhs/MF). I would assume it has something to do with the use of the HD camera.
40,000 million notches away