The 1977 theatrical version holds a special place in my world, but the contamination of the franchise has ruined my enjoyment of it. I last watched it ten years ago.
It’s still weird that some haven’t over the PT yet. It’s been so fucking long.
^Anchorhead doesn’t even care for Empire.
As anyone who’s seen my posts in the “Last movie seen” thread over in Off Topic may have gleaned, I don’t really like to rank the things I like; it’s a joyless process that brings me stress. Movies tend to organize themselves in my mind in a kind of loose tier system, and SW and ESB are in the very top tier. TFA and ROTJ have lower but still very respectable positions as well. I don’t feel any need to get more specific than that.
^Anchorhead doesn’t even care for Empire.
I know that at 22 I should be less sensitive about this but for some reason I feel weird when someone likes other Star Wars films but not Empire. I think my brain just can’t comprehend the shit.
I get it when it’s folks who were around for the original releases. You (I’m assuming) and I grew up with an OT box set. We first saw them in rapid succession and they’ve always seemed like parts of a whole. I imagine living through a three-year gap between installments gives you a much different perspective. I can definitely see how people might only dig the original, especially since it functions so well as a standalone story.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
I get it when it’s folks who were around for the original releases.
Yeah, maybe some people were so blown away by STAR WARS that literally nothing can ever top it in their minds. I’m always wanting to experience the next best thing so my mindset doesn’t allow for such mental barriers
You (I’m assuming) and I grew up with an OT box set.
Not exactly. I watched the OT in it’s entirety for the first time when I was 16. I had seen TPM, AOTC, ROTS, SW and the end of ROTJ (my Mom really fucked up with this one) when I was younger) before I had seen ESB and the entirety of ROTJ.
We first saw them in rapid succession and they’ve always seemed like parts of a whole. I imagine living through a three-year gap between installments gives you a much different perspective. I can definitely see how people might only dig the original, especially since it functions so well as a standalone story.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
I love you.
Though I really like TESB and consider it the best SW film made to date, I can understand why others – especially those who watched the first film back in '77 – don’t particularly care for it. Not only does the franchise’s long slide into universe-shrinkage and revisionism begin with TESB, but TESB is very different in tone and feel from SW; many fans may have fallen in love with Star Wars for the optimistic, swashbuckling nature of the original film, and may have found the grittier, grimmer nature of TESB a harsh, unwelcome departure from that.
DuracellEnergizer said:
Not only does the franchise’s long slide into universe-shrinkage
I don’t think one should blame something good for how it was used in future installments or other franchises. A good example is the fact that Vader was such an awesome villain that George literally made him Space Jesus in the PT. Should we blame Vader being awesome for that?
and revisionism begin with TESB
Elaborate please.
but TESB is very different in tone and feel from SW; many fans may have fallen in love with Star Wars for the optimistic, swashbuckling nature of the original film, and may have found the grittier, grimmer nature of TESB a harsh, unwelcome departure from that.
I can see that but there were plenty moments of levity and STAR WARS was clearly made to be the 1st act in a 3 act story. To go in another direction would have been George not staying true to his original vision. That’s just how I see it though.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
clever, but not asking for love. this is a good post.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
clever, but not asking for love. this is a good post.
Well he’s getting it whether he wants to or not. Accepting my love and letting it fester inside him is something that’s within his control.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
clever, but not asking for love. this is a good post.
Well he’s getting it whether he wants to or not. Accepting my love and letting it fester inside him is something that’s within his control.
lol. you know, after i posted this i realized that it looked like i was dissing your post somehow. i wasn’t. but it did obviously affect my wording.
I’m 77% to 80% sure I saw ESB first because it was on HBO.
clever, but not asking for love. this is a good post.
Well he’s getting it whether he wants to or not. Accepting my love and letting it fester inside him is something that’s within his control.
lol. you know, after i posted this i realized that it looked like i was dissing your post somehow. i wasn’t. but it did obviously affect my wording.
I actually didn’t fully understand what you were trying to convey. I just picked the most likely scenario and ran with it 😄
DuracellEnergizer said:
and revisionism begin with TESBElaborate please.
In SW, Darth and Luke’s father were two separate characters. In TESB, they’re retconned into being one and the same.
DuracellEnergizer said:
and revisionism begin with TESBElaborate please.
In SW, Darth and Luke’s father were two separate characters. In TESB, they’re retconned into being one and the same.
Is there any definitive evidence that George didn’t plan for Luke and Vader to be related?
The Leigh Brackett draft of TESB didn’t have Vader as Luke’s father. That’s a strong enough indicator to me that Lucas hadn’t thought the idea up yet.
The Leigh Brackett draft of TESB didn’t have Vader as Luke’s father. That’s a strong enough indicator to me that Lucas hadn’t thought the idea up yet.
Lucas may have already thought of the idea but didn’t tell her or wasn’t certain he wanted to go through with it yet.
The fact is that we’ll never know for certain exactly when Lucas came up with the idea. There is a lot of conflicting information about how much of the story was planned from the start and how much was improvised.
The Leigh Brackett draft of TESB didn’t have Vader as Luke’s father. That’s a strong enough indicator to me that Lucas hadn’t thought the idea up yet.
Well that draft was obviously written post STAR WARS so it’s possible he could have strict orders not to include that bit.
Also this is pure conjecture but perhaps the “No, I am your father” plot twist was a throw away idea that he had while writing STAR WARS and revisited the idea while making ESB.
EDIT:
Density beat me to it dammit
I get it when it’s folks who were around for the original releases. You (I’m assuming) and I grew up with an OT box set. We first saw them in rapid succession and they’ve always seemed like parts of a whole. I imagine living through a three-year gap between installments gives you a much different perspective. I can definitely see how people might only dig the original, especially since it functions so well as a standalone story.
I had that same conversation with someone years ago about Indiana Jones. They grew up with a six hour film, just as you’re pointing out with Star Wars. It is indeed a very different deal when several years pass between films. Plus, those were formative years. You can change quite a bit from 15 to 18.
I didn’t care for Empire because I’d changed in those three years. Alien had become my go-to outer space film. It was much deeper and I connected with it much more.
The difference was much more pronounced with Return. By then it had been six years, I was in my twenties, working, paying rent, had bought a car, had a long term relationship, etc. I had no interest in a kid’s version of my beloved Star Wars from several years earlier.
Star Wars became the franchise to me. A great film that moved me all those years earlier and couldn’t be topped. Life had taken place between the films. Entirely different than a bathroom break between for the box setters of the 1990s.
To be clear; There is absolutely nothing wrong with discovering the OT as a finished entity box set. You get here when you get here.
I get it when it’s folks who were around for the original releases. You (I’m assuming) and I grew up with an OT box set. We first saw them in rapid succession and they’ve always seemed like parts of a whole. I imagine living through a three-year gap between installments gives you a much different perspective. I can definitely see how people might only dig the original, especially since it functions so well as a standalone story.
I had that same conversation with someone years ago about Indiana Jones. They grew up with a six hour film, just as you’re pointing out with Star Wars. It is indeed a very different deal when several years pass between films. Plus, those were formative years. You can change quite a bit from 15 to 18.
I didn’t care for Empire because I’d changed in those three years. Alien had become my go-to outer space film. It was much deeper and I connected with it much more.
The difference was much more pronounced with Return. By then it had been six years, I was in my twenties, working, paying rent, had bought a car, had a long term relationship, etc. I had no interest in a kid’s version of my beloved Star Wars from several years earlier.
Star Wars became the franchise to me. A great film that moved me all those years earlier and couldn’t be topped. Life had taken place between the films. Entirely different than a bathroom break between for the box setters of the 1990s.
To be clear; There is absolutely nothing wrong with discovering the OT as a finished entity box set. You get here when you get here.
This is a perspective that I (having seen the non-SE editions maybe once and then growing up with the SE VHS set before making gradual realizations about quality of the PT, the SE, and the OT over time) haven’t ever thought of before. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
I had that same conversation with someone years ago about Indiana Jones. They grew up with a six hour film, just as you’re pointing out with Star Wars.
You had the same conversation with me right after TFA came out too, and made reference to this same ur-conversation about Indiana Jones 😃
Anyway, the childishness of ROTJ has never really bothered me the way it does a lot of people here. I think it’s fine that there’s a “the goofy one” in this franchise. Look at Planet of the Apes. Those are all over the place in tone, and no one’s angry about them. I’ll admit that it’s not the most dignified ending for the saga, but that’s since become a non-issue.
I think it’s childishness is made up for in some of the character moments, the space battle portion of The Battle of Endor and the Luke, Vader and Palpatine conflict even though of course as I do have a couple of issues with that conflict. All in all I still think it’s a very solid film even for all it’s flaws.
Definitely in my top 10
For some of us, Return Of The Jedi is ‘our’ film just as Star Wars is Anchorhead’s; I was taken to see it upon its original run as a five year old, so its childishness was a positive.
Even thirty years later, I can’t quite let it go.
For some of us, Return Of The Jedi is ‘our’ film just as Star Wars is Anchorhead’s;
I’m sorry to hear that.
Yeah fuck people who have different opinions and life experiences from Frink. They all deserve his sarcastic verbal abuse.