Star Wars: Rogue One - * Non Spoiler Discussion Thread * — Page 35

DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

If that’s how you feel. Still happened and explains how she managed to fly the Falcon.

EDIT:

She found the ship and I think the flight simulator was in there as well. So with that being said there’s nothing wrong with any of this.

The key thing that people miss is that Unkar Plutt raised her on Jakku. She hasn’t been on her own the whole time. I imagine growing up she was a sort of servant to Plutt, working for him (on ships and such, which is why she knows so much about the Falcon - his ship) until she was probably 18 or so and then had to fend for herself. Would be smart for him to teach her to know the ways around a ship so that if he needed repairs he could just get her for dirt cheap.

great points all.

I will say, so little back story was explained, that i guess you could either go the accept it for now route, which some of us are taking, or you could go the ‘it isn’t all explained therefore it is dumb’ route, which a few others are taking. Since it is a story, i choose the ‘accept if for now’ route.

dahmage said:

DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

If that’s how you feel. Still happened and explains how she managed to fly the Falcon.

EDIT:

She found the ship and I think the flight simulator was in there as well. So with that being said there’s nothing wrong with any of this.

The key thing that people miss is that Unkar Plutt raised her on Jakku. She hasn’t been on her own the whole time. I imagine growing up she was a sort of servant to Plutt, working for him (on ships and such, which is why she knows so much about the Falcon - his ship) until she was probably 18 or so and then had to fend for herself. Would be smart for him to teach her to know the ways around a ship so that if he needed repairs he could just get her for dirt cheap.

great points all.

I will say, so little back story was explained, that i guess you could either go the accept it for now route, which some of us are taking, or you could go the ‘it isn’t all explained therefore it is dumb’ route, which a few others are taking. Since it is a story, i choose the ‘accept if for now’ route.

Hilarious because if it had all been spelled out people would be complaining that they didn’t leave anything up to the imagination or whatever.

I think the few lines in there were enough, and everything else can be reasonably assumed. Remember, all we knew about Luke’s piloting skills was that he knew how to “bullseye womprats in [his] T-16” whatever that means. No one had any trouble going along with that, even though he’s probably never flown an X-Wing before. If anything I’d say they gave a lot more reason to believe Rey could pilot the Falcon than Luke an X-Wing.

Oh wait except she’s a girl whoops I forgot, any skills she has are just feminist bs.

imperialscum said:

Jeebus said:

Admiral Motti said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Admiral Motti said:

I would probably love this film if Kyle Katarn was in it. As it is, I’m not interested and have no plans to see it. Two Star Wars movies with a female lead…, it’s all just feminist BS.

You’re absolutely right, Star Wars is for men!!! I’ll take a universe full of spacefaring humanoid aliens that usually speak English, basically use magic, build giant planet-destroying superweapons, and fight with laserswords, but if those aliens are women then that’s totally implausible feminist nonsense!

[end sarcastic rant]

Well, we already had Rey, who could outfight Kylo Ren, though she never picked up a lightsaber before.

She had used her staff, though. And maybe Kylo Ren is absolute rubbish at using a lightsaber, we have no reason to think he was good.

Right, she used her staff… beating sand and stuff. The guy was clearly involved in real battles and was proficient with the force on top of that.

She lived in a wasteland, I have no doubt that people got violent and fought each other for food.

Again, we’ve got no idea if Kylo was skilled. Check out this video by our own resident Aalenfae.

She could also fly the Millennium Falcon without any training as a spaceship pilot.

Untrue. As CHEWBAKA said, she did use flight simulations. I don’t know if it was mentioned in the movie, but it was definitely mentioned in Before the Awakening.

The film clearly established that she was basically struggling for food. I don’t see how could she get an access to flight simulators. And there is no reason what so ever that there would even be flight simulators in that dump of a settlement.

Salvaged it off of one of the hundreds of ruined ships that litter Jakku. That said, I don’t know why she didn’t sell it.

DominicCobb said:

dahmage said:

DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

If that’s how you feel. Still happened and explains how she managed to fly the Falcon.

EDIT:

She found the ship and I think the flight simulator was in there as well. So with that being said there’s nothing wrong with any of this.

The key thing that people miss is that Unkar Plutt raised her on Jakku. She hasn’t been on her own the whole time. I imagine growing up she was a sort of servant to Plutt, working for him (on ships and such, which is why she knows so much about the Falcon - his ship) until she was probably 18 or so and then had to fend for herself. Would be smart for him to teach her to know the ways around a ship so that if he needed repairs he could just get her for dirt cheap.

great points all.

I will say, so little back story was explained, that i guess you could either go the accept it for now route, which some of us are taking, or you could go the ‘it isn’t all explained therefore it is dumb’ route, which a few others are taking. Since it is a story, i choose the ‘accept if for now’ route.

Hilarious because if it had all been spelled out people would be complaining that they didn’t leave anything up to the imagination or whatever.

I think the few lines in there were enough, and everything else can be reasonably assumed. Remember, all we knew about Luke’s piloting skills was that he knew how to “bullseye womprats in [his] T-16” whatever that means. No one had any trouble going along with that, even though he’s probably never flown an X-Wing before. If anything I’d say they gave a lot more reason to believe Rey could pilot the Falcon than Luke an X-Wing.

Oh wait except she’s a girl whoops I forgot, any skills she has are just feminist bs.

Yep

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

dahmage said:

DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

If that’s how you feel. Still happened and explains how she managed to fly the Falcon.

EDIT:

She found the ship and I think the flight simulator was in there as well. So with that being said there’s nothing wrong with any of this.

The key thing that people miss is that Unkar Plutt raised her on Jakku. She hasn’t been on her own the whole time. I imagine growing up she was a sort of servant to Plutt, working for him (on ships and such, which is why she knows so much about the Falcon - his ship) until she was probably 18 or so and then had to fend for herself. Would be smart for him to teach her to know the ways around a ship so that if he needed repairs he could just get her for dirt cheap.

great points all.

I will say, so little back story was explained, that i guess you could either go the accept it for now route, which some of us are taking, or you could go the ‘it isn’t all explained therefore it is dumb’ route, which a few others are taking. Since it is a story, i choose the ‘accept if for now’ route.

I’m I hearing Rey origins Trilogy???

I wasn’t advocating for that, but seeing you say that, I wouldn’t be surprised of there were discussions at LucasFilm. But I don’t know if anybody has the guts or blindness to do anything resembling a prequel trilogy… 😁

LuckyGungan2001 said:

Admiral Motti said:

Why do we need another female lead in the next film?

Why would we need another male one?

why another sentient one?

WHY NOT A SENTIENT ONE QUESTION MARK

TV’s Frink said:

WHY NOT A SENTIENT ONE QUESTION MARK

They are too predictable. They are always choosing to do things.

SilverWook said:

Jeebus said:

imperialscum said:

Jeebus said:

Admiral Motti said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Admiral Motti said:

I would probably love this film if Kyle Katarn was in it. As it is, I’m not interested and have no plans to see it. Two Star Wars movies with a female lead…, it’s all just feminist BS.

You’re absolutely right, Star Wars is for men!!! I’ll take a universe full of spacefaring humanoid aliens that usually speak English, basically use magic, build giant planet-destroying superweapons, and fight with laserswords, but if those aliens are women then that’s totally implausible feminist nonsense!

[end sarcastic rant]

Well, we already had Rey, who could outfight Kylo Ren, though she never picked up a lightsaber before.

She had used her staff, though. And maybe Kylo Ren is absolute rubbish at using a lightsaber, we have no reason to think he was good.

Right, she used her staff… beating sand and stuff. The guy was clearly involved in real battles and was proficient with the force on top of that.

She lived in a wasteland, I have no doubt that people got violent and fought each other for food.

Again, we’ve got no idea if Kylo was skilled. Check out this video by our own resident Aalenfae.

She could also fly the Millennium Falcon without any training as a spaceship pilot.

Untrue. As CHEWBAKA said, she did use flight simulations. I don’t know if it was mentioned in the movie, but it was definitely mentioned in Before the Awakening.

The film clearly established that she was basically struggling for food. I don’t see how could she get an access to flight simulators. And there is no reason what so ever that there would even be flight simulators in that dump of a settlement.

Salvaged it off of one of the hundreds of ruined ships that litter Jakku. That said, I don’t know why she didn’t sell it.

A flight simulator might be difficult to remove from a wrecked Imperial ship, but might be intact enough to work. We don’t see Rey scrounging anything bigger than one person can carry.

IIRC, the simulation was on a data chip, it wasn’t a full setup.

Tobar said:

Jeebus said:

IIRC, the simulation was on a data chip, it wasn’t a full setup.

So you’re saying her flight training was the equivalent of playing this on an old laptop.

Well no wonder she was an ace pilot. /s

What’s his face earlier was no doubt sexist in tone, but there really is no denying that Rey was a legitimate Mary Sue.

• She could not only pilot, but was AN EXPERT PILOT pulling off insane maneuvers that a decades long practiced veteran would have trouble pulling off

Luck?

• She knew the Falcon’s systems better than Han (this one I found the most egregious)

Agreed.

• She figured out how to mind trick someone with no training

Maybe she’s very strong in the force.

I don’t count her fight against Ren because she did have some experience with melee weapons, and as noted earlier, severely injured both physically and emotionally at the time. My last point above could be explained away in a future film but as it stands. The way she was presented in this film alone, she qualifies for that classification.

That said, I’m immensely looking forward to Rogue One and have no real misgivings about it.

I think Rey falls into a very strange category of character, a limbo between the totally grounded and relatable Luke, and the totally powerful and gifted Anakin. The difference is that Anakin’s power was explicitly a part of the plot, and maybe it will be with Rey, it’s too early to tell.

The Falcon had changed hands at least three times since the last time Han saw it. We know that Unkar Plutt made modifications, so why not Ducane and the Irving Boys? Moreover, Rey works for Plutt, so she may have even installed some of those modifications personally.

Tobar said:

What’s his face earlier was no doubt sexist in tone, but there really is no denying that Rey was a legitimate Mary Sue.

Eh I think there is.

• She could not only pilot, but was AN EXPERT PILOT pulling off insane maneuvers that a decades long practiced veteran would have trouble pulling off

I’d say a combo of using latent Force abilities and the film over exaggerating for the sake of the action.

• She knew the Falcon’s systems better than Han (this one I found the most egregious)

Not quite true. She knew the systems better because they had been updated since Han last used the Falcon.

• She figured out how to mind trick someone with no training

This is probably the only thing I have an issue with.

I have no idea why this topic is being discussed in a Rogue One thread… but here’s my two cents:

It seems that many people always forget the Maz / Rey moment when they bring up the lightsaber fighting.

Close your eyes. Feel it. The light… it’s always been there. It will guide you.

So my understanding has always been that it’s the Force guiding her saber when she truly gives in / concentrates and goes full “limit break” on Ren.

tbh, I wasn’t surprised Rey understood the falcon better than Solo did, even when I missed the reference to the compressor the first time around, mainly because 1) I assumed it was dumb luck, rather than her knowing the falcon better than Han, and 2) I read a lot of Darths & Droids before watching TFA, making anybody understanding the falcon better than Han seem reasonable.

As for her being so competent at flying, *shrug*. So was Luke, and he was justified by having him “shooting Womp Rats on [his] t-16 back home”, which looks more like a mini lambda than an X-wing.

The mind trick to me made sense, if only because the scene alluded to the idea that the Force is more of a state of mind than a “skill”. Rey in that scene looks like she’s trying to calm herself so she can just let the Force do its thing.

EDIT: Why are we TFA arguing on this thread? Let’s take it to a different thread; this one should be for Rogue One only, really.

Some jag complained about there being too many female leads a page or two back and the “Rey is a Mary Sue” dead horse was quickly exhumed.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

How come y’all have a problem with this but not Luke’s expert piloting and his ability to use the force to target a laser torpedo into a narrow exhaust port with like ten minutes of training from Ben?

Edit: the only difference between the two characters that would make Rey a "Mary Sue " but not Luke is that Rey is a girl, and it’s really hard to pretend otherwise.

I don’t even buy the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument, but that is not a very good analogy. Those are two very different things that can’t even be compared. Believe me, if Luke was able to best another lightsaber user in a fight after 10 minutes of training with Ben, I’d have just as much of a problem with it. But he didn’t do that, he used the force to guide a golf ball into the hole.

That said, I don’t have a problem with either situation, and I think “the force” is a sufficient explanation for both.

Another thing about Rey’s piloting abilities is that it didn’t at all seem like she 100% knew what she was doing right away. Don’t forget she barely got it off the ground and seemed to be flying by the seat of her pants for much of the chase.

Tobar said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

How come y’all have a problem with this but not Luke’s expert piloting and his ability to use the force to target a laser torpedo into a narrow exhaust port with like ten minutes of training from Ben?

Edit: the only difference between the two characters that would make Rey a "Mary Sue " but not Luke is that Rey is a girl, and it’s really hard to pretend otherwise.

At the beginning of the film he’s shown playing with a model of his T-16 while his full size ship is in the background:

He tells Han, “I’m not such a bad pilot myself.”

Finn: "We need a pilot."
Rey: “We’ve got one.”

He mentions during the briefing his experience with his T-16.

Rey says after they escape that she’s used simulators before.

Although cut from the theatrical release, Luke is questioned about his piloting skill and Biggs vouches for him, “Sir, Luke is the best bushpilot in the Outer Rim territories.” This scene would later be reinstated in the SE.

If we’re talking stuff from beyond the movie, a quick look at Wookieepedia shows that Rey has spent most of her life learning about ships, working on them, and using simulators.

As for expert piloting, in the opening moments of the battle Luke almost kills himself after flying too close to the surface.

Remember this?

Rey almost crashes the Falcon as soon as it takes off. Most of her maneuvers could be considered luck (or perhaps Ben would say the will of the Force guiding her) and are done with little precision.

Later he’s almost killed by a Tie Fighter until Wedge swoops in and saves him.

Falcon gets a couple hits in the chase too.

Luke is a flawed character that makes mistakes.

Rey on the other hand, never makes a mistake and is the best at everything she tries.

Not quite. Rey unleashes the Rathtars on Han’s freighter by accident. Her main flaw is her insecurity, causing her to run away from Maz’s castle and the initial call to the Force (and Han’s job offer). She’s confident in many ways, but isn’t cocky (having to repeatedly encourage herself while piloting “I can do this, I can do this.”). Is she the best at everything? I don’t think so. She’s not even the best new pilot in this movie (Poe can fly anything). Is she good with a lightsaber? Kinda, at least enough to beat a guy who’s got a pretty gnarly wound. Does that make her the best? Don’t think so. Is she the best at repairing shit and knowing her way around a ship? She’s up there, but fuck man she must have been doing something all those years on Jakku.

She’s highly skilled, sure, but she’s not perfect. She feels real, to me at least. Her incredible Force abilities are of course a whole other thing entirely but this is a fantasy film and I’m interested to see where the next episodes take her from here. Remember Luke’s impatience wasn’t a real factor until ESB. I mean it’s there in SW but it doesn’t change anything, he still does everything he sets out to do and never makes a mistake.