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yhwx

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23-May-2016
Last activity
25-Nov-2017
Posts
6812

Post History

Post
#1134274
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

oojason said:

yhwx said:

oojason said:

My head actually hurts reading the last few pages.

Is it too much to ask that members think and then explain their opinions and thoughts… instead of seemingly posting whatever first comes to mind for the rest of us to suffer?

 

I suggest we leave it there and get back onto politics again.

I know that I’m going to be disrespecting a moderator and will probably be disciplined for it, but I have to say this.

This is what people have doing with discussions about women’s issues for decades. “Could we just move on to something else?” This is the attitude that caused all the cover-ups of sexual harassment. It’s a kind of erasure. No, we cannot move on. This is important stuff, and people need to realize it. It’s an especially privileged position to take. People need to realize the nature of our society and our culture. While I have found this discussion inane, it’s still important. I just hope after enough times, people will finally get it. Maybe I’m a bit too optimistic.

No, you’re not going be disciplined - why would you be?

As posted by myself in the part you chose not to quote:-

‘If anyone wants to start a thread on females and Star Wars or sci-fi / culture - feel free - it’ll hopefully be a lot better than what has appeared in here today.’
 

However, if you’re going to put words in my mouth and 2nd guess my request, thoughts and attitude… then we will have a problem.

I’ll just say at the beginning that this will be my final post in the matter, and that no personal offense is intended.

I did read that part that part of the post. My issue is with the larger cultural, institutional, and societal context of that attitude. I did not mean to insult you. I’m just saying that it’s emblematic of a trend to hush these issues. I am not saying that you did this intentionally. I am not blaming you. I do not hold anything against you. The problem I have is not with you; it’s with culture in general. I think men should not try to get as offended when they’re shown the cultural issues that we have at hand. If we do that, we’ll work closer towards increasing equality for all. I hope you consider this.

This is my final post on the matter. Thank you.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134273
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

You’re welcome!

It’s disgusting when you just hear the words, but putting the actual picture to it (and especially that picture), it brings it to a whole new level.

Maybe we should send the picture to every person who doesn’t think that sexual harassment and assault is a big deal.

Post
#1134266
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

oojason said:

I suggest we leave it there and get back onto politics again.

I lied, I’m going to post in here again, but not on the subject of the last several pages.

So with that said, enjoy…POLITICS!!!

http://www.tmz.com/2017/11/22/texas-congressman-joe-barton-nude-sexting-twitter/

Texas Congressman Joe Barton sent nudes and illicit text messages to a woman, and he’s apologizing for the graphic image first revealed by a Twitter user.

Barton, a Republican, sent the nude photo showing his penis. The Twitter user censored the image, and also revealed a sext that reads, “I want u soo bad. Right now.”

Ready? I’m spoilering this. You can’t actually see anything, in fact it’s covered up quite a bit…but just to be safe, because you can’t say I didn’t warn you.

Ugh. Disgusting.

Post
#1134261
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

oojason said:

My head actually hurts reading the last few pages.

Is it too much to ask that members think and then explain their opinions and thoughts… instead of seemingly posting whatever first comes to mind for the rest of us to suffer?

 

I suggest we leave it there and get back onto politics again.

I know that I’m going to be disrespecting a moderator and will probably be disciplined for it, but I have to say this.

This is what people have doing with discussions about women’s issues for decades. “Could we just move on to something else?” This is the attitude that caused all the cover-ups of sexual harassment. It’s a kind of erasure. No, we cannot move on. This is important stuff, and people need to realize it. It’s an especially privileged position to take. People need to realize the nature of our society and our culture. While I have found this discussion inane, it’s still important. I just hope after enough times, people will finally get it. Maybe I’m a bit too optimistic.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134259
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

On these forums: Yes, we should.

In society at large: …We don’t? What does the culture do to shun women for liking Star Wars?

It’s more subtle, systematic, and implicit than that. While there are explicit examples of these deeper norms, it’s more of a pervasive problem that surfaces subtly. It’s hard to notice, but it’s there. Sometimes women aren’t exposed as much to these things. Sometimes it’s a gentle force steering them away. It’s like the norm that blue is for boys and that pink is for girls. There’s no biological reason for that; in fact, there was a time where the opposite was true. It’s just that there are societal norms embedded in culture that we are exposed to since the time we are born. It doesn’t have to be so explicit.

sounds like a conspiracy theory. Nah, I think I will stick with men and women having different brains and different hormones and it sometimes causes them to have different tastes in things.

Do you believe in institutional racism? If you do, it’s an issue with that sort of scale. It only sounds like a conspiracy theory because you haven’t thought about the issue enough and projected the situations other people might live in.

Post
#1134216
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

Oh. Umm… I don’t know much about that. I visit here. That’s it.

And I can’t talk about my knowledge of Star Wars with my IRL friends because I get labelled a “purist.”

Not Star Wars culture, just Western culture in general.

Post
#1134214
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

On these forums: Yes, we should.

In society at large: …We don’t? What does the culture do to shun women for liking Star Wars?

It’s more subtle, systematic, and implicit than that. While there are explicit examples of these deeper norms, it’s more of a pervasive problem that surfaces subtly. It’s hard to notice, but it’s there. Sometimes women aren’t exposed as much to these things. Sometimes it’s a gentle force steering them away. It’s like the norm that blue is for boys and that pink is for girls. There’s no biological reason for that; in fact, there was a time where the opposite was true. It’s just that there are societal norms embedded in culture that we are exposed to since the time we are born. It doesn’t have to be so explicit.

Post
#1134209
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

That’s a serious question. I don’t see why Star Wars, as a franchise, is not friendly to women.

Rey is a woman. And she’s a badass fighter and amazing pilot.

I’m not talking about Star Wars; I’m talking about the culture surrounding it.

Post
#1134202
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

Post
#1134199
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

dahmage said:

can we get this back to being a politics thread?

This can cover social issues too, and it’s very privileged for you to take the position you are taking now.

sorry warb, but i am stealing your bit

*sigh*

You’re basically saying that this issue doesn’t matter, which, I think, should be pretty offensive towards women.

Nope, i am saying the three of you talking for 5 pages doesn’t matter. you guys aren’t exactly doing anything about the issue.

Discussion is important. It raises awareness about the issue. I am hoping that if I have this argument enough times, hearts and minds will change. If you immerse yourself in and opinion for enough time, you may acknowledge the merit in it.

I’d also state it amounts to an erasure of these issues.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134186
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Why the fuck not? What is it about Star Wars that requires it to cater to straight white dudes only? Star Wars is supposed to be a universal story about the human experience.

Does it cater to straight white dudes only? Who says it does? Is it required to? Who says it is? The culture? Which part? Mainstream?

You’re telling me mainstream culture tells us Star Wars is for straight white dudes and nerds only?

There’s certainly an undercurrent of that in culture.

Post
#1134173
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Like Dom said, there’s no reason it shouldn’t be appealing to women.

Post
#1134144
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Because of our culture. Our culture says that men should like certain things and that women should like other things. There is a small biological factor, but it’s mostly culture reinforced since the time we are babies.

My 2yo daughter likes pink, and yellow, and a host of girl-centric things that I did not directly tell her to prefer. She is only 2. She was born with certain preferences.

Cultural things can be subtle when you’re already immersed in them. It’s not explicit.

Post
#1134142
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

I view it as a problem, because there’s no reason for it, and I tend to favor more equality in these situations. But this is a concept you seem not to understand.

Post
#1134136
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Because of our culture. Our culture says that men should like certain things and that women should like other things. There is a small biological factor, but it’s mostly culture reinforced since the time we are babies.

Post
#1134119
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

Citing equality doesn’t really fit, because they are not equal. Saying a woman should be paid as much as a man because a woman’s ability or intelligence is equal is not the same thing as saying women’s bodies, which are not identical to men’s, should be treated identically. Having a woman cover her breasts does not lower her social standing or make her to be inferior to a man.

Let’s turn the tables. Is the argument that a certain part of a man’s body should be censored because it’s different from that part on a woman a valid argument to you?

I don’t think it is censored because it different. I think there are reasons other than simply it being different as to why it is censored, and those reasons are potentially sound.

Women’s breasts aren’t just different-and-that’s-it. Men have sexual responses to them. Women have clothing that accentuates them. Women and men both treat women’s physical bodies differently than women and men both treat men’s bodies. Women have different attractions to men than men do to women, and so arguing that men’s bodies and women’s bodies should be treated equally (or identically) “because” isn’t reason enough to not treat the differently.

You don’t think women have sexual responses to men’s exposed chests?

are now going to try to tell me that women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests = men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

And now you’re suddenly the expert on women’s sexual response to men’s bodies.

I am not an expert but I will bet my life savings that

women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests ≠ men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

Source? That’s quite the generalization.

I have to have a source for that?

Yes. You must now have a source for every generalization you make about women.

Post
#1134116
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

The latter.

No offense but do you actually know any women? This is extremely ignorant.

You called me out, and you are 100% right. I am wrong right here. I think I read or interpreted that question wrong. I think it’s bad that this forum does not attract women. There are also deeper societal reasons as to why this is the case.

I am sorry for my accidental ignorance in this situation. People must always acknowledge when they are wrong. Again, sorry.

As I edited in above, the attitudes some display here […] both in off-topic and outside of it, are not exactly welcoming to women.

This was the point I was trying to make.

This may be true, but I don’t think the opinion that women’s breasts being considered private parts is unwelcoming toward women. The whole discussion, maybe, but not that opinion.

I don’t think I would make much of a distinction if I were a woman.

Post
#1134111
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler, if you’re gonna keep saying demonstrably false things about what women like and don’t like, I’m gonna keep insisting you don’t actually know any women.

They’re pretty easy to meet. I hear that 1 in every 2 people is a woman.

Only if you live on Earth. On Tatooine there aren’t any women.

So what you’re saying is that Beru was a…

Post
#1134098
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

The latter.

No offense but do you actually know any women? This is extremely ignorant.

You called me out, and you are 100% right. I am wrong right here. I think I read or interpreted that question wrong. I think it’s bad that this forum does not attract women. There are also deeper societal reasons as to why this is the case.

I am sorry for my accidental ignorance in this situation. People must always acknowledge when they are wrong. Again, sorry.

As I edited in above, the attitudes some display here […] both in off-topic and outside of it, are not exactly welcoming to women.

This was the point I was trying to make.

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