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valien

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9-Aug-2013
Last activity
3-Mar-2024
Posts
25

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Post
#1368478
Topic
The Shining - 35mm print opportunity (a WIP)
Time

a_purist said:
For this preservation, what would be more accurate? 2.0 or 1.0? In principle, both. But not for a film before… what year? I don’t know how you see it.

The two channels of the “dual mono” soundtrack are exactly the same, and the sound was intended to be reproduced by a single loudspeaker behind the screen at the center.
In a 2.0 setup, both 2.0 mono and 1.0 tracks would be reproduced the same way, i.e., the same signal coming from both loudspeaker. The impression would be that of a single phantom channel at the center. In a setup with three front channels (e.g., 5.1), 2.0 mono would be reproduced from L and R, while 1.0 from the center. So I believe the latter would recreate more faithfully the theatrical experience.

Post
#1336756
Topic
The Shining - 35mm print opportunity (a WIP)
Time

adapter223 said:

poita boosted version file enchanced a bit to 35mm look.

https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/a09f51d0e6184819c58e76af7f7d9445-full.jpg
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/d1652c4debd608af2d865e345471dd18-full.jpg
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/309515deb541497d310c6bab8acf3bd0-full.jpg
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/66ac607ef8a76a81abf69764eb98a87e-full.jpg
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/e8010b136b64323f31be300f5b560248-full.jpg
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/4/c6d1a6754d69dd56509bd5c98363cb2b-full.jpg

The images are no longer available. Is it possible to share them again? Thanks.

Post
#1132145
Topic
THE SHINING - Complete Score! (Released)
Time

IsanRido said:

“The Awakening of Jacob” as heard in the film is the Cracow Philharmonic Orchestra recording. The one listed there (and heard in the LP) is by the Polish Radio National Symphony Orchestra.

The only Cracow Ph. Orch. recording of the piece that I found was released in 1987: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Warszawska-Jesień-87-Kronika-Dźwiękowa-3/release/4726748. Maybe you meant the 1980 one by the Prague Radio Symph. Orch.: https://www.discogs.com/it/Penderecki-Lutosławski-Baird-Prague-Radio-Symphony-Orchestra-Jacek-Kasprzyk-Anaklasis-Mi-Parti-Eleg/release/8580278. Since it was released in 1980, and the film was mixed from January to April of that year, it’s improbable that it was used in the film. Moreover the EMI recording sounds identical to the one in the film.

Post
#1131814
Topic
THE SHINING - Complete Score! (Released)
Time

IsanRido said:

That is one nice analysis, though some of the listed recordings are incorrect. They appear to be same as the OOP release.

The only incorrect recording is the one of De Natura Sonoris 2, but the author states that he doubts that it is the one used in the film. In fact it is not, as I wrote in my previous post: while the LP contained the EMI recording conducted by Penderecki, the one in the film is Polskie Nagrania conducted by Markowski.

Post
#1131736
Topic
THE SHINING - Complete Score! (Released)
Time

Béla Bartók

Music for strings, percussion and celesta, Sz 106 (1936)
Berliner Philharmoniker, cond. Herbert von Karajan
Polydor International GmbH, Hamburg (℗1973)
Contained in Concerto for orchestra – Music for strings, percussion and celesta (Deutsche Grammophon 457 890-2)
https://open.spotify.com/track/5CTkMaBHclVEgmkLLOAFbX


Gyorgy Ligeti

Lontano
Sinfonie-Orchester des Sudwestfunk, cond. Ernest Bour
https://open.spotify.com/track/3CeUkLCPrYMjtq2h3H44dz


Krzysztof Penderecki

De natura sonoris no.1 (1966)
Polish Radio National Symphony Orchestra
cond. Krzysztof Penderecki
EMI Records (℗1976)
Contained in Orchestral works (EMI Classics 7243 5 74302 2 7)
https://open.spotify.com/track/1y8emek7BKHvtlPWwWg2xh

De natura sonoris no.2 (1971)
The Warsaw National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, cond. Andrzej Markowski.
https://www.discogs.com/it/Krzysztof-Penderecki-Stefania-Woytowicz-Kazimierz-Pustelak-Bernard-Ładysz-Warsaw-National-Philharmo/release/1210406.
Never digitized as far as I know. The recording of the piece usually found on the web, indicated as the one used in the film and included in the LP soundtrack album, is in fact a different one: Polish Radio National Symphony Orchestra, cond. Krzysztof Penderecki, EMI Records (℗1973) Contained in Orchestral works (EMI Classics 7243 5 74302 2 7), available at https://open.spotify.com/track/7s1E8iI3aQZ710oXeYU3Lx

The awakening of Jacob (1974)
(also known as The dream of Jacob)
Polish Radio National Symphony Orchestra, cond. Krzysztof Penderecki
EMI Record (℗1976)
Contained in Orchestral works (EMI Classics 7243 5 74302 2 7)
https://open.spotify.com/track/2DyiDydMbuTEs2Z0wi7CSc

Kanon for 52 strings and magnetic tape (1962)
Polish Radio Symphony Orchestra, cond. Krzysztof Penderecki
EMI Record (℗1973)
Contained in Orchestral and choral works (EMI Classics 7243 5 74852 2 7)
https://open.spotify.com/track/5gLz8GbsBf58Ihfh66XFES

Polymorphia for 48 strings (1961)
Cracow Philharmonic Orchestra, cond. Henrk Czyz
Polskie Nagrania (℗1967)
Contained in Krzysztof Penderecki volume one (Polskie Nagrania PNCD 017 B)
A different recording, conducted by the composer, is this one: https://open.spotify.com/track/3T2w6OuypL2ou0We4jpyXt.

Jutrznia (1969-1971) (sometimes indicated as Utrenja or Utrenya)
Pioneer Choir (chorusmaster Wladyslaw Skoraczewski), Warsaw National Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir (chorusmaster Jòzef Bok), cond. Andrzej Markowski
Polskie Nagrania (℗1973)
Polskie Nagrania PNCD 018
The first and the fifth pieces of the composition are used in the film (‘Ewangelia’ and ‘Kanon Paschy’); a different recording of the two pieces, conducted by the composer, are these: https://open.spotify.com/track/6UMLrjevKDo442N5Xv1hNR; https://open.spotify.com/track/7L9pXw2t5IlqfTuQELJSB8.


Songs:

Masquerade
Jack Hylton and his Orchestra
Recorded 23/9/1932, London, Decca F-3161
https://open.spotify.com/track/4Ty56U1h6XrPFunSKWJ1Sb

Midnight, the stars and you
Lyrics and music by Jimmy Campbell, Reg Connelly and Harry Woods
Performed by Ray Noble Orchestra, voice Al Bowlly, 1932
https://open.spotify.com/track/00G4lDMw8KKQyP0r3KbWwR

It’s all forgotten now
Lyrics and music by Ray Noble
Performed by Ray Noble Orchestra, voice Al Bowlly, 1934
https://open.spotify.com/track/5wwYR4QLx7FjeC1oKFakup

Home
(When Shadows Fall)
Lyrics and music by Van Steeden, Clarkson and Clarkson
Performed by Henry Hall & the Gleneagles Hotel Band, 1931
https://open.spotify.com/track/6nLPlszQqCdybSv4is56x9


An analysis of the music editing and mixing of different editions of the film is here:
http://www.archiviokubrick.it/risorse/saggi/The_Music_in_The_Shining.pdf

Post
#780000
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

I didn't go to the screening, but I have some interesting information.
As we already knew the 70mm print came from the BFI. Cinema Ritrovato stated that it was a 1990 print with Kubrick-approved color grading. I speaked with the projectionist and he told me that it was in a Dolby Baby Boom format (tracks 2 & 4 for subwoofers). He said that the sound was "Dolby SR 42 format", as this picture confirms:

https://www.facebook.com/CinetecaBologna/photos/ms.c.eJxlzMENACAIQ9GNDKWAsP9ixoMH4frSfgicYeWUUIK68EQrJT~_heHUB2IWjY~_M1hNk7tvvG4soBlWcjzg~-~-.bps./10153649529808132/?type=1&theater

However, according to this site, the 42 format is A-type, while the 45 is SR:

http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/2000/62/dolby/

So probably there was an error on the label: it is either format 42 (hence A-type, not SR), or SR (hence format 45, not 42).

The BFI archive entry for 2001 doesn't say much about the soundtrack:

http://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmItems/153451583

Anyway I was surprised that a Kubrick-approved print exists with a Baby Boom format, which didn't exist in 1968. So the question is: were the original left-center and right-center channels just a duplicate of the left and right channels?

According to this article, when the film was restored in 2001 they decided to use Dolby SR but to stay faithful to the original 6-track format. No mention is made to a Baby Boom version.

http://www.arcadiacinema.com/melzo/rassegnastampa/200109_cinematechnology.pdf

What do you think? I'll try and ask information to the BFI, they were very kind to me in the past.

P.S.: here are some other pictures of the screening:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153653575613132.1073742255.355192863131&type=3

Post
#777158
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

Could it be that the color differences are due to print degradation (being it an old copy)?

I'm thinking of the "tint of yellow", the "saturated red", the "white lion"...

As for sound, did you notice whether the subjective breathing sound of Poole and Bowman comes from all the speakers or not? What about the low sound of the Discovery? In the MGM DVD, the former comes from all the speakers, while the latter does so only in the computer malfunction scene, if I remember well.

Post
#775797
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

Also note that the 70mm presentation should have 5 front speakers, one for each of the 5 front channels, and various surround speakers carrying one single surround channel. 

Please ask the theatre information about the copy if possible. When was it printed?  Is it the restored version?

Thanks again! 

Post
#775773
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

kaosjm said:

 Noted. I will be jotting down notes during the film when I observe those things since I don't want to rely on my memory alone. I am going to be sitting on a balcony level dead center towards the back right next to the surround speakers so I should be able to discern what's in the surround channels pretty well.

 A HUGE thank you in advance!

Post
#775766
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

kaosjm said:

So far some things I'll be looking for is if the moon is brown or has a green tint to it.

If HAL says, "I read you."

If HAL's voice pans throughout the speakers or is static to one channel.

If the crew members voices come through seperate speakers.

 Please pay attention to the color timing keeping in mind the screenshot you can find in this topic: e.g., the red of the chairs, the "white" lights inside the ships (are they bluish?) - and the moon, of course.

Regarding the sound, please consider how much the dialogue is panned (from which speakers does it come from?). You should hear HAL's voice coming from all the speakers including the surround. Is the surround carrying other sounds as well (e.g., music, breathing, the low sound of the ships)?

Thanks a lot!

Post
#773295
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

Spaced Ranger said:

And I don't mind restating for a sum-up:
  • MGM      1998 DVD -- mono/panned dialog1; missing H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."
  • Warner 1999 DVD -- mono/panned dialog1; includes H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."
  • Warner 2001 DVD -- mono/centered dialog1,2; includes H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."

1:  from listening to Floyd/receptionist chat at space station arrival
2:  only person-to-person is centered; person-to-monitor (for example - "Voice Print Identification") is still panned

 Thank you! But please note that there are other differences between the soundtrack remastered in 2001 and the previous ones. For example in the remastered version the surround is stereo, and sometimes it contains the low sound of the spaceship that wasn't there in the previous mix.

Post
#773126
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

According to the information we have there is no reason to believe that there were 2 different 1999 Warner DVDs. Instead, it seems that Warner rereleased the 1998 MGM disc in a different case (snap case, "Stanley Kubrick Collection"), as part of the 1999 Kubrick boxset, but also released a new disc (still in 1999, same snap case) which is derived from the same master this time including the line "I read you".

Post
#772912
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

In sum, the DVD I own is the 1998 MGM one in the 1999 Warner package. The sound mix is apparently faithful to the original one but misses the line "I read you". The LFE channel is sometimes active.

According to Spaced Ranger the 1999 Warner DVD seems to contain the same mix but including the dialogue line.

The other Warner releases on DVD and BD (from 2001 on), and presumably the DCP version, contain the new mix of the film, which is unfaithful to the original one (different dialogue mix, stereo surround, partly different surround content, etc.). The LFE channel is more active than that of the 1998 DVD.

Post
#772439
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

Spaced Ranger said:

Did you re-check your sources or play the actual disc?

I checked the disc.

On the off chance there may have been a "quiet re-release" of corrections (it's happened before -- on the Star Warslaserdiscs, for example), here is this disc's movie-files listing from Windows Explorer:

The VOB files on my disc were created on 16th July 1998. So now I suppose that, as you said, there has been a quiet re-release. My disc is contained in a Warner case, inside the 1999 Warner boxset of Kubrick films, but it seems that the disc itself is identical to the 1998 MGM release. Since your disc is different, Warner must have produced a new disc. Or, now that I'm thinking of it, since the box was used when I bought it, it could be that the previous owners switched the discs.

Post
#772252
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

skoal said:

One of you *may* be confusing the 1st and 2nd Warner DVD releases, let's figure this out.

I would like to know if there is a 2001: ASO soundtrack that contains the directional sound/panning and the "I read you" line. Thanks.

The 1999 Warner DVD seems to contain the same master as the MGM DVD according to what I read on the web. Therefore the line "I read you" is missing from both, but the soundtrack mantains the original mix of the film (derived from the original 6 channels: five on the front, one on the rear): the dialogue pans, the surround is mono, and if I remember well the surround never carrries the low sound of the spaceship unlike the new Warner DVD, released in 2001, which obviously has a different mix (and the line "I read you" is present).

So I would say that no 2001 soundtracks exists on DVD such as the one you're looking for (i.e., the original mix not omitting the dialogue line).

Post
#772027
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

skoal said:

Hi, does the *1st* Warner DVD release of 2001: ASO contain the directional sound/panning and the "I read you" line that's missing on the MGM DVD? 

From the posts on this thread and LDDB, the MGM DVD release contains the directional sound/panning.

And DVDBeaver mentions the 1st Warner DVD release and the MGM DVD are identical and IMDB says the Warner DVDs contain the "I read you" line that's missing on the MGM DVD.

Thanks.

 I own the 1st Warner DVD of 2001. It seems to be the same master as that of the MGM DVD (which I don't own): the two surround channels carry the same signal, there is panning and the line "I read you" is missing.

Post
#725463
Topic
Help: looking for... a few LaserDisc Audio Tracks
Time

Hello,
I'm a film sound scholar from Italy and I'm interested in the laserdisc soundtracks of the following films for research purposes:
- Alien (5.1)
- Carrie
- Vertigo
- North by Northwest
- Taxi Driver
- The Shining
- A Clockwork Orange
- Full Metal Jacket
- 2001 (I don't know if anyone ripped this yet).

It doesn't matter if they are not synched to current video releases.


Could you please provide me with these? Your help will be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much.

Post
#725462
Topic
The Audio Preservation Thread
Time

Hello,
I'm a film sound scholar from Italy and I'm interested in the laserdisc soundtracks of the following films for research purposes:
- Alien (5.1)
- Carrie
- Vertigo
- North by Northwest
- Taxi Driver
- The Shining
- A Clockwork Orange
- Full Metal Jacket
- 2001 (I don't know if anyone ripped this yet).

It doesn't matter if they are not synched to current video releases.


Could you please provide me with these? Your help will be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much.