muddyknees2000

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Recorded in what manner? Direct line? Or with a mic next to a speaker type recording?

NeverarGreat said:

I totally agree that the Yoda reveal should be preserved in ESB. Directors should take a sort of Hippocratic oath when making prequels/sequels/spinoffs of movies, in that they vow to 'first do no harm' to the original story and characters.

 Yes. Just yes.

DominicCobb said:

Anyway, adding puppet Yoda to the PT would probably be a job for a second unit crew. Are there fans out there with movie accurate Yoda puppets? Just wondering if they even exist.

 They exist, but it's a very difficult job. Not to say that it's impossible, because it IS most certainly achievable......but with a LOT of work. 

I'm firmly in the camp that Yoda should be "heard of, and not seen" in the PT. His image being used in promotional material for ESB still gave no absolute confirmation that he was Yoda. PR material is not made by the same people who write the story anyways....and the scene where he reveals himself as Yoda WAS clearly meant to be a surprise in the film.

BUT.....if one wanted to replace the CG version with a better looking puppet, it would almost necessitate cutting out every layer on the screen, painting in the bits that Yoda moves over and then integrating the new footage of puppet Yoda......as it would be next to impossible to perfectly match the new puppet to the old movements. There would need to be more freedom to make all new movements. For example...if Yoda is conversing with another Jedi you would need to cut out the background....fill in the hole created by Yoda's absence....if Yoda's movements passed OVER the Jedi he was talking to the Jedi's robes would need to be recreated (either from just before or just after Yoda overlapped him/her)....and THEN you drop the new puppet footage in. This gets even more complicated if Yoda was a middle layer.....with things behind him AND in front of him. Do-able, but a lot of work.

Definitely easier just to cut him entirely ;)

exitzero said:

I don't know if all the spoiler talk is true...

 Some of us would rather not know if it is. I myself am VERY guilty of leading things off topic on occasion, and would not normally complain this early in a derailment......but spoilers are something I've been able to avoid so far, and I would just like to politely request that this convo be taken to the appropriate thread (if there IS one) before someone says something that many of us will regret. Please and thank you.

I also have never been able to pin down exactly what the falling object is. Did the Blu Ray not offer better clarity on the item in question? I always just assumed it was something off Luke's belt, or a piece of the antenna he was hanging from dislodged from his landing on it.

Yeah, the artwork they've done for covers and menus has been lackluster at best. I'm hoping to one day have someone on board that can help me with animation so that I might include at least 2 scenes that I felt were missed and should have been included (not ALL omissions were necessarily horrible).....the Dwarves chasing the Elves through the forest (which is mentioned IN the film when the Elves turn up for the first time but Bilbo states that they have "returned"....and the stuff at Beorn's house. The lost art for Beorn was really quite lovely in my opinion and I'd love to include a slightly condensed version of his role in the film.

Bingowings said:

Just get the colons fixed.

 And the irritated bowels....they take me right out of the film.

EyeShotFirst said:

 If you could that same magic to boring old Endor....

 This.

The copy I watched as a kid was taped from television......and was recorded only from the very beginning of the film itself.....never knew it carried that disclaimer before it. Wonder what was cut.

FVDnz said:

Should there also be a bit of mystery into this Darth Tyranus too, because that wasn't really touched upon much, just a passing mention by Jango Fett on Kamino.  And again, all this Sifo Dyas carry on that doesn't really get clarified all that much.  Had to take a Clone Wars arc to tie up a few loose ends really.

 Oh man....the AOTC detective plot.......that one's a mess. A shame, as a good detective story, tracking down leads only to discover a bad guy right in your midst is a great thing if done right......which of course the PT did NOT.

I think we're arguing slightly different points here. Where as you're arguing IN-world, I'm coming from a basic film mechanics OUT-of-world standpoint.

I say this because I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've just said, BUT I still believe that Lando is portrayed as a bad guy in the film, until he turns the tables and offers his help. Again....film mechanics, not an in-world explanation.

In-world, he has his reasons and they may in fact be well-intentioned ones. Out-of-world, he still causes harm to the protagonists by joining forces with the main villain.

But I can definitely agree to disagree....especially seeing as this IS an argument of semantics seeing as Lando's alignment was not at all the point of my original post, but rather the argument against idea that there were no characters in SW who CHANGE alignments. Lando was only one of the examples, and some of you disagree with that particular one.

Jackpumpkinhead said:

...so why would you have one short scene, give him a few lines that slightly suggest that he maybe, sort of, kinda, possibly, might be a little good.

 To make the PT less one dimensional.

I definitely agree with you that he's more or less bad, and only has that one moment where he puts into question his loyalties. But I felt that moment was a strong one and should have been touched upon even more. Basically we're both advocating opposite ideas. You want the small amount of "good" removed to make him all bad. I want more "good" added to the bad to make him less easy to define. Your idea is likely much easier to bring to life than mine is, I just think it makes for yet another one dimensional character in a PT that's already chock full of 'em.

Han punches him, Chewie strangles him, Leia gives him mad attitude when he complains about not having a choice........I think a few people are displeased at his actions. Whether or not he had a choice is an issue of semantics. His actions bring harm to protagonists = Bad Guy. He then starts to help them when he DOES have more of a choice = Good Guy.

Bingowings said:

Lando was looking out for the entire population of Cloud City.

 The residents of Cloud City aren't really presented to us as a character in the film.....the way that the Ewoks ARE presented to us in ROTJ....I've always felt that Lando was much more selfish, looking out for his own interests. He sells out his friends to protect his own ass (not that he has much of a chance against Vader)....and then sets about making it right once he can do something about it. The film's focus is not with the residents of Cloud City.....but with Han & Co. and Luke. Lando betrays them, then helps them. He goes from bad (even if forced to be bad by circumstances out of his control) to good.

Jackpumpkinhead said:

As far as the character of Dooku is concerned, I have never liked how he was constantly viewed as an on again off again villain. IMHO i think Lee was under used. star wars isnt about politics and double crosses. this isnt a mission impossible movie. its star wars, where villains are villain and good guys are good guys.

 No worries about disagreements. Discussion is what these forums are for. And speaking of which....I couldn't disagree more with the above statement. Star Wars in its very nature is about characters changing their outlook on life....flip-flopping as you say. The core of the 6 film saga has Anakin going from good to bad, and then back to good. Han in ANH at first doesn't give a damn about good causes and the idea of friends....he later changes his way of thinking and saves the day.....becoming one of these heroes he used to scoff at. And then there's Lando.....only looks out for himself, much like Han used to, until he also has a change of heart. In fact, I'd say that grey-area characters are what's most interesting about SW.

EDIT: One of the more interesting bits of AOTC (IMO) was when Dooku expresses regret that Qui-Gon isn't around anymore. I genuinely got a sense that the reckless Jedi that Qui-Gon was (*cough* should have been Obi) might have been a good friend to Dooku, and might have been sympathetic to some of his arguments. It lent more depth to an already dead character. The kind of depth that the PT needed way more of. I felt that it was one of the better character moments in a trilogy populated almost entirely with "people" I couldn't care less about (*cough* Grievous).

Jackpumpkinhead said:

So this thread got me thinking about 8 months or so ago. i really liked the idea that Dooku should be shown earlier in the film. IMHO i also think that Dooku should also be made a villain from the beginning. no more of this "is he bad or is he good" crap, when ROTS just straight up makes him bad. it is unnecessary to the story. going with that idea i also feel as though the scene when obiwan and dooku talk is rediculous as well. why would dooku just not tell obiwan that palpatine is the bad guy and end it all? then absolutely nothing is done with this information later in the film or in ROTS. with those ideas in mind i worked on this little project for my own edit and hope that something similar will be done with Ady's version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9MtRYmqkRc&feature=youtu.be

lemme know what you all think

 I always felt that he was a wasted character as well. However, I much preferred his ambiguity in AOTC over his outright evilness of ROTS. And the fact that they got rid of Lee and replaced him with a CG coughing robot is just another of the many travesties of the PT.

Ever since my first viewing (and there have not been many) of AOTC I have always wished that there was a way to make him an "in-between" of some sort....either a double agent, or a Jedi fallen by the wayside. Never full on evil, OR good. The PT was sorely lacking in interesting characters that we care about or identify with, and I think Dooku could have been one of them if only made just a little more tragic. I had envisioned a situation where Anakin kills him (possibly after his appearance in TPM and AOTC.....I really like the idea of shifting his roles into the other films as he serves zero purpose in ROTS), and then finds out that he was in fact working for the Jedi, and that the Jedi WERE aware of a plot to take over. Anakin struggles with the fact that he killed a good guy, and then in a nice twist he admits to someone that he actually ENJOYED killing him. This would be a nice throwback to the idea of him actually being seduced by the dark side. Therefore Anakin's struggle (instead of being tricked into joining Palpy) is all about wanting to be good, and to be loved by his friends, but also desirous of the feelings of power that evil acts can enable. We all know how that particular struggle ends, but it would be far more entertaining to watch him fight his demons than get bamboozled by Palpatine.

hansolo8004 said:

Is he going to be releasing ESB before the HD ANR?

 Yes.

Captain Antilles said:

Plus, after all the years he (and his team) has dedicated to this project, why would he ever put out anything less than his final, ideal version? It would just lead to a mess--the near-finished cut would most likely spread around teh interwebz and probably get confused for the final cut for quite some time, perhaps indefinitely. After, once it's out there, it can't be taken back. It's better for him just to wait and put out one version. 

 For everytime we get asked this question....this is the best answer I've ever read.

brash_stryker said:

I doubt I'm alone. 

 You're not. I think he looks all kinds of silly. Kind of a cross between a cowboy and a 70's pimp (no offense to any of you who might be cowboys or 70's pimps).

Jackpumpkinhead said:

i dont know if this has been discussed or not, but i would like to see Zam Wessel get replaced by Aura Sing. i have no idea why Lucas chose to create such a cool looking character for TPM just to never bring her up ever again.

 The Aura Sing action figures and her appearance in TPM were all ticketed as a "first glimpse" at the new bounty hunter from the next episode.....so this WOULD fall in line with the Revisited ideal of sometimes going back towards earlier drafts and original ideas ultimately abandoned in favour of others.

Gotta say, I prefer my Jabba referenced in conversation, building him up, until his reveal in ROTJ. It works perfectly and opens ROTJ on a note of suspense. The original plan WAS to have included him in that one tiny scene in ANH, but I think it would have ruined that beautiful sense of dread than one shares with Leia and Co. as Han is taken away by Boba to face his fate at the hands of his nemesis Jabba the Hutt..........and that same feeling of foreboding as everyone heads for Jabba's palace at the beginning of ROTJ to rescue him.

WILL build.

metalmunki said:

...we see Boba Fett's helmet half-buried in the sand, his gloved hand comes from out of shot to claim it, then we iris to the credits and the credits theme.

 Fett dies in Revisited.

.Mac. said:

There are obviously many different ways to make changes for any scene, and I'm sure most ideas can be justifiable, but my main argument here is we shouldn't so quickly jump to making a certain change if it significantly alters the lore, even if it is a great change. At least for me, I'd rather there be a fix that still respects the over all story and lore, instead of a possibly better fix that alters what we know of the lore drastically. To me that's where I believe we should try to draw the line when it comes to deciding changes within the Revisited Project of the Original Trilogy. Of course Ady has final say on all of this.

 My issue with this argument is that the lore or story of ROTJ is just  not very compelling to begin with. It was significantly watered down from what it should have been, and is very weak. Staying true to it leaves one with a flawed end product, which was what was started with. The aim here is to improve this particular film, not only visually, but story-wise as well.

brash_stryker said:

People aren't proposing moving the moon to Coruscant but keeping everything else the same (which I agree would be completely pointless and would make very little sense to be built "in secret" but circling the Galactic Capital!). The idea that's been proposed here involves downgrading the Death Star's importance to a secondary (probably surprise) plot-device, not central to the plot anymore. The Rebels would need a new reason to be blowing up the generator on the moon, which is why myself and others have proposed that the shield generator is powering a PLANETARY shield which is guarding against attacks on Coruscant. So the moon circling Coruscant doesn't in any way affect your logic that the DS should be built elsewhere, as the DS would have absolutely nothing to do with the moon. The 2nd DS can appear as a surprise trap without us needing to know where it was built. That's the beauty of it. The first Death Star wasn't stuck in orbit around a particular planet. This one doesn't need to be either.

The stakes should be much higher in the penultimate chapter. An assault on the Imperial Capital fits the bill perfectly in my opinion, and is probably more along the lines of what people expected back in 1983. You are of course entitled to disagree, however the issue I see is the entire plot centres around destroying another Death Star, which is just lazy recycling and it should never have been written in this way in the first place. Changing the main plot to no longer be about the Death Star fixes a lot. There's a lot more wrong with ROTJ than that, but it would be a hell of a start.

As for metalmunki's statement that there's "no way" the Rebels would ever attack Coruscant......their aim is to defeat the Empire, yes? How else do you propose they would ever accomplish that if they're never willing to hit their seat of power? They'd have had to do it eventually so I don't understand your logic. Just wanting to see Endor in the forest moon's sky is all very pretty, I'm sure, but it doesn't fix anything about the plot.

 This. All of this.