little-endian

sega3dmm said:

Endian, I watched the CAV LaserDisc of Jurassic Park last night. Good old PCM Lt/Rt audio. And yes, I noticed the distortions on some lines of dialogue. I'm glad to find out I wasn't the only one.

Wooow. I definitely need to subscribe this thread here in order to be notified - someone in fact is replying in this regard and I almost missed it ...

Many thanks for having a check. At least one did it, great! After I had posted my experience here, in the meantime I also had the chance to listen to the Japanese release in Dolby Surround [PILF-1926] and it has the same weird distortions.

Perhaps those distortions were inherent to the mix. Not a miscalculation in the transfer, but dialogue distortion right in the master.

This seems to be indeed the case. At least, that slightly distorted source seems to have been used for plenty of releases. However, the interesting question is which source has been used for the 7.1 remix on the Blu-ray releases. I'm not totally sure but I wonder if it would be possible to create the audibly distortion-free parts out of the distorted ones through post-processing. Maybe I'll try that. Maybe the distorted source is the real deal as it is and they tried to make the best out of it during remixing.

Strange.

Very indeed.

Also Jurassic Park is a very hot film. It's loud and never lets go.

You think so? Compared to nowadays stuff like "Pacific Rim" which for me is just loud all the time, I would consider the soundtrack of Jurassic Park to be relatively dynamic. However I really have to watch this again myself.

Even with its imperfections, I prefer the 1994 CAV LaserDisc audio to the 2013 IMAX audio for the 3D version.

With "IMAX audio", are you referring to the 7.1 remix shared by all Blu-ray releases or is there yet another one?

Also, can you by any chance hook me up with the theatrical far field DTSHDMA of JP? I really want to listen to it right now.

By absolutely pure chance I happen to have the preserved cinema DTS stuff spread over several hard disks to lower any risk of data loss. As we know, data of which no backup exists, is not important data and this beast - distortions or not - definitely must not get lost.

However, I also are about 10000 km away from those hard disks so I could I only offer it in mid October. But I could ask the last one I shared it with to reshare it which would be only fair. Let me know via PM accordingly, maybe you already got it.

Exactly that came to my mind as well. Which is why a detailed analysis would be advisable in this case. To really dig into this, one would have to decode everything to PCM, synchronize all the stuff, subtract it from each other and check what will remain.

Neither do I want to know which so-called "lossless" tracks, repackaged in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are actually retrieved from lossy sources. Not to speak of converted pitches (25 fps, 23.976 fps, etc.) and other stuff.

Yet another question for me remains unanswered: How much better is DTS @1536 kbps really compared to AC3 @384 kbps? Most comparisons dealing with that question are invalid because they look at the end result only whereas often no one takes the effort to check if identical data was fed to the encoders.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but at least during the scenes I already stated, it should actually pretty easy to distinguish between what is considered to be derived from the CDS master and the new mix.

Furthermore, I would start my investigation by decoding the files to PCM and compare the channels individually also visually in a wave editor. Even any level or dynamic differences would be interesting since the small differences caused by the different formats (AC3 vs. DTS) won't introduce them if decoded properly.

@TFAN

Would be nice if you could share the DTS track which is at least easy to retrieve by demuxing the VOB files after all. However I assume it will be the remix. Neither would I worry too much about "half rate" vs. "full rate" since AC3 at just 320 kBit/s like in the cinema not too long ago can already sound damn good.

As far as I have read here and other forums, the only known sources for the older mix seem to be the Live/Artisan US-DVD and some AC3-LaserDisc, probably even sharing the same data as both have 384 kBit/s.

Interestingly though, LDDB only lists three AC3 versions on LD and one of them

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/21959/LD68952-2DD/Terminator-2:-Judgment-Day

has an rather discouraging comment:

"This is a remastered edition of the 1991, 139-minute theatrical release with a remastered Dolby Digital AC-3 soundtrack."

For all of us, "Fight Club" isn't expensive enough to have on LD, there is the anamorphic "squeezed" version of T2 as well:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00141/PILF-2555/Terminator-2:-Judgment-Day

Maybe instead of buying the disc, we should "rent" it and just rip the AC3 data for the sake of comparison. ;)

Furthermore, I'll send you a PM.

Edit: Just read through this thread again and actually the AC3-LaserDisc, which I linked to is the same, "Stamper" already mentioned, saying it features the CDS-mix as well.

However, isn't the statement at lddb.com a contradiction then? Why is the CDS source considered to be remastered? 

Does anyone have the LD68952-2DD in possession and can confirm this? 

TFAN said:

Is there any specific scene where I can find out if it is the CDS mix?

Of course I would give you the time codes in question in addition, but unfortunately, I can't check them myself right now since currently in Japan with my LaserDisc-collection growing and growing (and becoming dangerously heavy to carry back home).

When it comes to compare the mix from the first US-DVD (the "allegedly using the CDS source" - one) with the one from newer releases, for me it's most easily distinguishable during the following scenes:

1. The famous scene where the T-800 and the T-1000 meet for the first time in the hallway leading to the carpark: When the T-800 cocking his shotgun while stamping on the roses in slow motion, the reloading sound on the remix has way more echo on the surround channels whereas on the "so-called CDS-mix" the sound rather comes from the front only, which is more typical for the usual front-prioritized mixes in the cinema for me. However, since I never watched it there, it's actually a wild guess.

2. When Sarah is fiddling with the lock trying to escape from the hospital, the score on the old DVD mix sounds more like "double stereo" on the front and backs, with way louder surround channels by comparison, however in a very nice way. Someone else here called it "holographic", which might be a good term to describe it. This, by the way, is true for the entire score during the movie. On the old mix, the surrounds seem to be constantly used for the score as well whereas on the remix, it's quiter on the back channels and quite different.

3. Another good moment is when the T-1000 first enters the hallway of the hospital. The score "key sound" for me sounds WAY better on the old "CDS" mix.

All in all it's a matter of preference - I prefer the old one for sure although I have to say if the old mix is really what was shown in the cinema in the new CDS audio format at that time, I would have expected more bass, especially during explosions which is somewhat a bit disappointing on every release I know so far.

On the other hand, the sound design of T2 is a very nice example of highly skilled and precise mixing (and mastering which nowadays seems to be the last stage to perfectly screw things up) with a mid and high-end frequency range almost "glasscutting" with a wide dynamic range. Movies like Pacific Rim might offer more and deeper bass but with an aweful low dynamic range - everything is just loud from the beginning till the end (which doesn't prevent reviewers from praising exactly those kind of mixes just because the DTS-HD MA LED lit up on their AVR while watching, tsss).

Hope that helps you.

A few months ago, I bought a sealed copy of the US LaserDisc of Mission Impossible. Although the mix seems to contain a minor error in at least one scene (slight crackling sound on one of the surround channels if I remember correctly, comparable to the crackling noise one can hear on the first US Blu-ray's PCM track of "Cars"), its AC3 mix is quite "beefy" and fun indeed.

Oddly though, a strange mix-up seem to have taken place at least with my copy since, despite being brand new until I had opened it, they put in twice the same disc with side 1 and 2, thus side 3 is missing. Some very weird manufacturer mistake.

Which is way I grabbed two other copies (PILF-2377) while being in Japan, where they are so cheap (down to 108¥ including VAT), one doesn't know whether to laugh or to cry. It contains the AC3 as well and probably it will be the same audio data as the US one, but only a check in the future will reveal. 

Anyway, I'd be willing to rip the audio and provide it to this nice community as well once I'm back, which won't be before mid of July, though.

I wonder why apparently noone responded to my hints regarding the somehow odd distortions on JP Cinema DTS track.

Wasn't the cinematric DTS mix THE ONE and most important to be preserved? Isn't it worth to be investigated?

I'm a little surprised and confused that noone seems to care anymore too much about it. It's certainly not exactly vitally important but it's THE DTS track after all, isn't it?

Hello everyone,

after quite some time, I wanted to enjoy Jurassic Park once again, so I grabbed the MKV I created, containing the “official” 7.1 mix from the regular Blu-ray-release as well to be able to switch between the tracks for comparison. And I encountered some quite disturbing difference between the mixes.

First of all, I haven’t ruled out the possibility that something funky is going on with my playback system yet, however to make sure at least that it’s not due to any downmix-clipping as I’m listening to 4.1 only, I took the original file which I had losslessly converted to FLAC some time ago and listened to the center channel alone, separated by eac3to - same result:

At 30:40, Ian Malcolm starts with the sentence “John, the kind of control you’re attempting is not possible.” and at about 30:43, especially his “not possible” sounds (slightly) distorted - whereas in the 7.1 mix it doesn’t.

In general, Malcolm’s voice sounds somehow slightly crackling to my ears on the preserved 5.1 mix, also when they’re sitting on the table to discuss the whole idea of recreating dinosaurs.

Another oddity, however present on both mixes: at 35:26, right before Donald starts with “It’s hardly appropriate to start hurling accusations”, there is some weird scratching sound for a very short moment, which reminds me of an old vinyl. I wonder what that is and if it was intended that way. Maybe I missed something here.

Can anyone concur?

PS: @bevil/nafroe: I could provide you the file as well, either in DTS-HD MA or the (smaller) FLAC.

I had read the others threads as well, but I wonder what you mean with "the info". Are you referring to the assumption that the so-called 4.0 mix is actually a 5.1 one (5.0 in terms of the technical Cinema DTS procedure) or that the mix provided by the Laserdics- or BD-releases is the same as the Cinema DTS one?

Jetrell Fo said:

Now I see where your snide "I don't like to share" comment comes from in my Alien DC thread.  

Hello Jetrell Fo,

maybe I should have chosen my words more wisely because it seems I unintentionally offended you somehow.

Which is why I want to provide an insight into my actual intentions:

Luckily or unfortunately (from whichever point of view one want to look at it) I’m quite a quality geek, which some might call already obsessive. Hence I’m keen on getting any movie in its highest quality possible (of course I won’t break into Cameron’s home to get the original of Terminator 2, though ;)). While being interesting and somehow like a sport to "hunt down" all those sources for video and audio for a particular movie, it also totally pisses me off that most distributors are too ignorant to listen to their fans. Maybe you have heard about the petition to get the original mono mix of ‘The Terminator’ onto the Blu-ray-release? Had it been included at the very end? Of course not! What an effort to multiplex some low bitrate 1.0 AC3 track into a M2TS-container, absolutely pathetic!

So I’m frustrated on one hand and desperate on the other, knowing that all the good stuff is actually floating around somewhere, but it’s a high effort to come near it. For instance, most tracks, few members here are willing to share, are stored on some more or less obscure one-click-hosting, but there is no dedicated storage where interested people could easily access it. So most goodies are gone faster than one can say “no, that is not piracy cause if the labels would do their damn job right, I could easily buy it!” So I wondered if I could contribute, offer my upload capabilities or get a sleek FTP host up and running in a data center for all of us.

Hence there is neither impatience nor snide (great new vocabulary for my by the way), but only desperation ‘cause I’m afraid the some files will be gone until I can grab them and there are many movies I like to enjoy in their original quality. Sorry if I appeared any other way to you. I might add that English is neither my native language, hence I might not get everything right all the time, misunderstandings occurring.

I already contacted DoomBot regarding Waterworld to give it a try in conjunction with the Blu-ray video (don’t have the HD-DVD yet which is considered to have less DNR).

Furthermore you are probably right - since I haven’t come across any Cinema DTS CD yet, I wasn’t aware that there are separate files for each reel which have to be put together. The extraction of the LFE content as well as the frame rate adjustment is enough effort on its own I suppose.

This isn't all we do during a day.

... at least probably not for living which is actually a pity because if I had an own label, you guys would be exactly the ones I'd hire instead of some idiots messing around with audio tracks which have been okay at the beginning (German language track on the LaserDisc) and sucked at the end (German language track on the Blu-ray). 

I was the last one who posted on this thread and noone replied anymore so I'm stuck wondering how and where to get the outcome of that project. :(

If found a comparison of the German release at least:

http://www.dark-red.de/waterworld/i_b_h_waterworld.html

Neither one is awesome, but better than some contrast boosted bullshit like "Léon" or "Lola rennt".

I wonder how you manage it to get your hands on all those rare gizmos all the time, Jetrell Fo.

Unfortunately, if I'm not mistaken, you're not the one who is particular keen on sharing the stuff, are you?

How does the DTS track which comes with the D-VHS-Cassette differ from the Cinema-DTS-CDs (except for the apparent technical differences of course like no LFE, LFE-content hidden in the rear channels, etc.)?

About one year later, I'm afraid that there is still no decent video source available of this movie. The master they used for the Blu-ray is average at best.

But how about the audio part? Has anyone synchronized that 4.0 - mix to the Blu-ray yet? In which way does it sound different compared to the BD-upmix?

Beber said:

Is there an actual dts theater mix to look for? It was 1994. The first dts movie, Jurassic Park, was released in 1993. It was rather new, and Léon is basically a low, let's say modest budget French movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110413/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec

You definitely got a point here. You're right, I didn't take that into account - probably, there won't be any DTS-CDs to rip it from, then. However, if it is not a theatrical DTS mix the hunt shall be for, then be it a theatrical AC3 mix. I think the actual audio codec is negligible since all are able to reproduce the original master quite accurately (some might disagree but I doubt I'd pass a blind test between PCM, and AC3/DTS at high bitrates). Unfortunately, we might be talking about the optical AC3 track on the 35mm film then which makes it much more difficult to ever rip that stuff.

bigrob said:

FYI The US BD doesn't have a 7.1 track. It's just standard DTS-MA 5.1, the German BD has a DTS-HR 7.1 track though

The US BD though is upsampled to 96Khz/24 bit though  

I noticed the French BD has a 5.0 track that might be worth checking out 

Many thanks for correcting me here - you're right and I'm unfortunately wrong. Only the German release seems to have that 7.1 mix which is quite typical for the label "Kinowelt". They already screwed up the German language track of "Terminator 2" and other movies as well so I'm pretty sure that this is at best a custom upmix and not the SDDS source, some would kill for to get their hands on. ;)

Since I blabbered about the different audio tracks of Léon, I thought that pictures are worth a thousand words:

Léon Center, Left, LFE, Right, Surround Left, Surround Right

Every screenshots shows the same channel (!) - from top to bottom: kk650's used DTS track (whatever this version is now), the German Blu-ray 5.1 DTS core, the Japanese 5.1 TrueHD track and finally the Japanese DVD 5.1 DTS track.

And to make it perfect, here are some numbers regarding the dynamic range, sorted by its channels in the same order:

****************************************************************

DR19      -0.38 dB   -25.57 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.C

DR19      -4.92 dB   -28.82 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.C

DR13      -7.71 dB   -25.03 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.C

DR20       0.00 dB   -26.11 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.C

****************************************************************

DR20      -0.71 dB   -27.49 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.L

DR18      -9.24 dB   -33.50 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.L

DR14     -12.56 dB   -32.38 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.L

DR21      -6.81 dB   -34.16 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.L

****************************************************************

DR23      -0.12 dB   -31.16 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.LFE

DR21     -25.78 dB   -54.46 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.LFE

DR0      -124.49 dB    -1.#J dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.LFE

DR19      -6.36 dB   -32.61 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.LFE

****************************************************************

DR21       0.00 dB   -27.16 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.R

DR17      -7.26 dB   -32.29 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.R

DR14     -11.91 dB   -31.48 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.R

DR21      -5.79 dB   -32.58 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.R

****************************************************************

DR26      -0.50 dB   -34.64 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.SL

DR18      -5.28 dB   -30.14 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.SL

DR15     -13.29 dB   -34.48 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.SL

DR21     -10.27 dB   -37.99 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.SL

****************************************************************

DR25      -1.71 dB   -33.89 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_kk650_dts.SR

DR17      -7.20 dB   -30.78 dB   2:12:50 ?-leon_debd_dts.SR

DR15     -13.29 dB   -34.48 dB   2:12:53 ?-leon_jpbd_thd.SR

DR21     -10.30 dB   -38.01 dB   2:12:56 ?-leon_dvd_dts.SR

****************************************************************

Although it's under debate how well the TT dynamic range meter works for whole movie tracks with a length of several hours, the bias is clear: the Japanese TrueHD Blu-ray is by far the weakest dynamic-wise.

When it comes to the "tinniness" of the surround channels during the "ring trick" scene, the kk650-version is - also by far - the worst, it really sounds like played through a rain barrel and as if they converted the track a thousand times.

But judge yourself, I provide the "Surround Left" - channel of this particular scene via FTP as well for comparison:

ftp://Leon:Mathilda@dynamic-toad.no-ip.biz

@Beber: Yeah, plenty of versions yet to be checked out, I'm afraid. You don't possess that one by chance? Maybe I buy some "first DVD release" and "shoot in the dark" for the sake of comparison like I already did with "Terminator 2", "Se7en" and "Fight Club".

In the meantime, I read through the thread at avsforums, kk650 mentioned - there, one user states:

"BTW, the LFE is also mixed about 10db hotter than typical reference LFE and previous DVDs. It can be very distracting especially in the 40hz and below range."

This would confirm my theory that the Blu-ray has been artificially "pumped up" not only on the video, but on the audio part as well. :(

In order to prevent bloating this thread and because I think that "Léon" deserves its on thread, for everyone interested in the audio topic, please refer to this thread.

Hello kk650,

so great to have you here contributing to the thread I started. Since I hadn't thanked you on "the other" forum yet, the least I can do, is to do it here now - fantastic work you did and the result is as good as it was possible in this case.

Maybe it would be theoretically possible to somehow combine the details contained in the dark and bright scenes from the DVD with the BD version, but I guess this would be an insane effort so I still cannot understand how people, genius enough to create such a great movie, care so little about how their own hard work is presented on home video. If I would be a filmmaker, I'd be in direct contact with every part of the distribution chain to ensure that my movie would be presented in the highest quality possible on any given medium.

However, I discovered something else and hence I'm afraid that my thread title I chose in the first place, is insufficient and should rather have been "Léon - The Professional: in search of a theatrical HD master *without* contrast boost AND theatrical audio mix".

Refer to my post here.

I wasn't sure whether or not to create another thread and since it's somehow related to those DTS-preservations, I posted it there but now I think this topic is 'bigger'.

I dig into this a bit further and found out that the DTS file which is contained in your customized "16GB-release", seems to be the core of the - probably US - Blu-ray's DTS-HD MA 7.1 - track. Whereas the core "only" has 5.1 channels of course, it will be hardly based on the theatrical mix, but the 7.1 upmix because I strongly doubt that Léon had been produced in 7.1 at its time.

I also checked out the Japanese Blu-ray version of Léon which comes with a TrueHD-track. As if this was supposed to be the perfect proof that audio codecs don't really matter at all, but the mix is virtually the only thing which counts, this release seems to be the weakest audio-wise: The levels on all channels are not only significanly much lower, but they seriously lack dynamics and the LFE-track, compared to "your" DTS file and mine from the JP DVD, consists of nothing but pure silence, so it's in fact a "5.0" mix - totally weird.

So far, I counted 4 quite different mixes of Léon (including the theatrical version, but this one is not that interesting for me). Unfortunately, neither of them is able to enthuse me:

1. "International Blu-ray" / kk650 custom version [DTS(*-HD MA)]: Highest dynamic range of all, higher LFE level, but weird "tinny" acoustics, especially during the "ring trick scene" at around 01h22m-01h23m.

2. "Japanese Blu-ray" [TrueHD/AC3 equal]: Low levels, low dynamics and completely empty LFE track, thus actually 5.0.

3. "US-DVD (theatrical cut)" [AC3]: Low levels, low dynamics and not very interesting in general since not the DC

4. "Japanese 2-Disc DVD SE" [DTS/AC3 equal]: appears to be the most theatrical mix to me as far as I can tell and without the weird "tinny" acoustics, but dynamic range could be higher for my taste.

The question is if the dynamic range has been artificially boosted on the BD or lowered for the DVD. Hence I'm keen on comparing some LaserDisc or - even better - the original DTS discs which had been used in the cinema in 1994.

kk650, if you're interested and can spare some time for it, I'd appreciate if you could give the files I provide via FTP a listen. It's a downmix to Dolby Stereo Pro Logic (including the LFE) done via eac3to, but still it is quite abvious to me. If you like, I can also provide the separate tracks (C, L, R, LFE, SL, SR) as well as the preserved 'untouched' DTS-track from my DVD.

Maybe we could make a project out of this - to preserve Léon in it's director's cut length in the highest video and audio - quality possible.

Okay, here we go:

Syntax for Webbrowsers:

ftp://Leon:Mathilda@dynamic-toad.no-ip.biz

Data for dedicated FTP-clients:

Host: dynamic-toad.no-ip.biz

Username: Leon

Password: Mathilda

Port: 21

Protocol: FTP

Files: The Ring Trick (BD).flac, The Ring Trick (DVD).flac

Has anyone came across any source based on the theatrical mix of "Léon" (aka "The Professional") yet by chance?

Looking for a better video source than provided by the common Blu-ray releases, I ended up with kk650's regraded version and comparing its contained DTS track to the one I have on my original Japanese NTSC-DVD (2-disc edition, featuring the cinematric version as well as the longer cut), I encountered some oddities I'd love to dig into with you guys:

I'm not sure if the DTS track which is contained in kk650's release was sourced from the Blu-ray but I assume it for now. Furthermore, I'd like to neglect the fact that the DVD of course - since mandatory on the DVD-Video-standard - in addition also comes with an AC3 track, but it seems that they are based on the same mix, so I'll refer to the DTS one only.

The seperate channels on the "BD DTS" seem to have a bit more "punch" and dynamic range, however this becomes less significant if you create a stereo-downmix with the LFE mixed in using eac3to to compare. During the end titles on the "BD DTS", there is no audio on the LFE channel at all, but there is on the "DVD DTS". So quite mixed differently in general.

What's really odd however, is the scene where Léon shows Mathilda his "ring trick". The guy's machine gun on the rear channels and also the explosion at the end sounds totally roaring and somehow "tinny" on the BD track whereas it is quite okay on the DVD. It's difficult to describe but I already recognized that phenomenon on other movies. It's definitely not the equipment nor any downmixing issue since the weird sound is already present in the rears this way.

However, neither of the two soundtracks incredibly impress me, although they are not really bad, either. Am I expecting too much, has this movie never been made better audio wise or do I indeed miss the great DTS theater mix, someone hopefully will be kindly be able to provide me?

Actually I wanted to post some files here so you can listen yourselves what I'm babbling about here, but I'm confused whether or not it is okay now to post any here. I hope that I'm not the only one who thinks that this great movie deserves the best video and audio possible, so please advice, thanks.

PDB said:

I haven't downloaded it but I know kk650/kingkong made a regraded version where he fixed the contrast.

Many thanks for pointing me into the right direction, PDB. I even had the chance to grab a copy in the meantime. The effort which was done is amazing and the result is definitely better and colorwise closer to the DVD for sure, however clipped whites still clip which was expected since kk650 can't perform magic and create detail which has been gone already, so my search is still valid, I'm afraid.

TheHutt said:

Well, in Germany it was released as "Director's Cut" theatrically. Though it still omitted one 12-second scene.

I want to add that in the meantime, the fully uncut "integrale version" or whatever it is called, has been released in Germany as well:

http://www.ofdb.de/film/991,Léon---Der-Profi

That's why, most German versions are correctly declared as "cut" there despite no violence has been cut whatsoever.

Oddly enough that the "how old are you? - scene" had ever been missing in the first place, it was never dubbed to German. Instead, you'll get English and subtitles.

However, the exact "cut" of the movie is not my concern here. My concern is the totally screwed up dynamic range and clipping which lets this great movie look like some cheap video production in bright scenes. I'll never get it which total idiot decided this. Probably the brilliant director himself - the human mind is facinating.

ElectricTriangle said:

Jonno said:

As for Memento, there have been two transfers, haven't there? Are they both equally poor?

 Here is a comparison of the Memento disks. They look okay (and look similar to the DVD) except the new US transfer, which has been contrast boosted.

Regarding Memento, another favourite:

Similar story: The new director approved transfer is just plain stupid. Maybe too much success or too many drugs, we'll never know for sure. Not only the contrast is awfully boosted as well, but also the black&white-scenes are heavily filtered lowering the detail.

I personally stick to the original US-release despite its outdated MPEG-2 codec. But it looks as authentic as the movie probably looked in the cinemas. The German, Spanish I think and the Japanese one seem to have been all created from the same master but with different codecs (MPEG-2 vs. AVC). No big difference as far as one can tell from the screenshots, though.

Many thanks for the elaborate explanation, Laserdisc Master.

So it is as much hassle as I was afraid it would be .. Yeah, would have been too easy, I was already surprised that I could flawlessly sync the THX-certified (not that would mean anything, but it has in fact a bit more dynamic range than the BD mix) DVD-audio of Titanic to the 3D picture of the Blu-ray on the first try.

Is there any good reason for frames to be missing at all? I mean, don't they scan the source material frame by frame?

When you compare the video - which tool(s) do you use for that?

It would be great if there was a tool which would be able to compare two totally different video streams for its content frame by frame and detect any duplicates or missing frames.

I'd be interested as well. And since all the one-click-hoster stuff is a lot of hassle, I'd be willing to offer my upstream resources (about 1MB/s at least) via (S)FTP to hopefully make things easier.

Maybe we could also setup some kind of forum-internal site where we could host all the preserved audio tracks, custom versions, etc. Before anyone screams about piracy: none of this would be necessary of the labels would do their damn job right: to really provide any movie in its highest quality.

Is there anyone (still) in possession of the theatrical DTS-track and willing to share it with me or tell me how I can get it? I'm aware that in rare cases, some are offered on eBay but it seems to be difficult to 1. get them and 2. convert them to the common 5.1 format since the LFE information is contained in the rear channels and lowpass-filtered and redirected to the subwoofers during playback in the cinema.

<span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>Unfortunately, all Blu-ray releases worldwide seem to use the same - in  my opinion - shitty contrast-boosted source which features a sharper image compared to the DVDs though, but the bright elements clip to pure white:</span>

<span style=“font-size: 14px; line-height: 17.279998779296875px;”>http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=252&y=179&action=1&image=6&hd_multiID=183&cap1=18189&cap2=18181&disc1=1953&disc2=1951&lossless=#vergleich</span>

<span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>Ironically, similar to what happened with “Memento”, this ugly image seems to be even director-approved what makes me wonder what they were smoking when they signed this thing off. Anyway, I don’t really care if it is now supposed to look awful because some director changed his mind, I want the far more natural style how it appeared in the theater and on the old DVDs as well.</span>

<span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>Does anyone know a source with an unaltered HD image by chance? I assume that at least a 2K-master had been created for the DVD releases as well so there might have been a HDTV station which broadcasted it in a “less flawed” shape.</span>

<span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>Any help finding such a source would be greatly appreciated since I love this movie.</span>