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litemakr

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Join date
1-Sep-2011
Last activity
19-Oct-2017
Posts
198

Post History

Post
#1104325
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - Bluray color balanced
Time

Turisu said:

Although the BD does restore some shots that are digitally altered in the WOWOW such as the plane in the image above and the red ‘travelling line’ sequence. So given the choice between the two sources in terms of a single-pass colour correction, I would probably opt for the BD.

That being said, the BD has the digitally illuminated lamp in the ark-opening scene which is properly off in the WOWOW so a best-of-both approach would be amazing.

The BD has too many issues which can’t be fixed. Some things are too altered color wise or overexposed to the point of obliterating detail. The orange/teal color is inconsistently applied, sometimes to the point of erasing the original colors and some detail. The opening of the ark sequence in particular is recolored and overexposed beyond salvaging. It’s truly one of the worst examples of a famous scene being completely effed up. I can’t believe Spielberg ever approved it. The couple of re-composited shots you mentioned could be taken from the blu, but I would use wowow for everything else. And even that has a few problems. The only properly exposed official transfer of Raiders is the DVD, but there isn’t a good enough HD transfer of that available.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1103506
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - Bluray color balanced
Time

Hey Dre, glad to see you back at it. But it’s really a mostly pointless exercise to try and recolor the blu-ray. The colors are too altered to fully fix without a lot of work, some of the original textures and colors are just gone. More importantly, the highlights are clipped in many places, then dulled to try and cover it. So you will never be able to recover some of that detail or get to the original contrast. I would personally much rather see you continue with the Wowow recolor. That is in much better shape color wise and is only overexposed to a minor degree. Or maybe a hybrid with the best sections from each version.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1085585
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade
Time

don007 said:

litemakr said:

don007 said:

Compare my new scan project Raiders of the Lost Ark (left - no color correction. Color its same like my film print) and Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0 (right)

What is the origin of that print? What year? It looks waaay too warm compared to any print I have seen on super 8mm, 16mm or 35mm. Is it from 1981-82?

Hi, material is ORWO and it is 1985. I have promised two more film copies so I will make a comparison but will also be on ORWO material.

Thanks, I’m very curious to see those. I wonder if some timing changes were made for the 1985 prints, because it certainly looks more like home releases that came after the initial releases in 1981-1983. Do you have any screenshots from the ark opening sequence in reel 6? Would like to see how that looks on this print.

Post
#1079931
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade
Time

Is there any need to get Crystal Skull scanned? Do the prints look any differnt than the blu-ray? It was color graded digitally, I doubt there is much, if any, difference.

Post
#1078648
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade
Time

don007 said:

This film copy has a single problem. It’s a combined copy. 2 in 1. When you play at the projector on a large screen, everything is fine, but as you scan it, there are differences. It’s a shame but the copy is in good shape. Sorry my english but I use google translator 😦

It is very hard to get an accurate representation of a theatrical print in HD video because of color space and dynamic range limitations. HD video simply doesn’t have the range, so a lot of tweaking must be done to squeeze the range in. HDR video goes a long way towards getting us much closer, but it is a ways off from widespread adoption (if it ever is).

Can you tell me any more about the scan? Was it done in RAW format? Do you have any video samples?

Post
#1078455
Topic
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade
Time

DrDre said:

Hey, that looks amazing! We’ve been having some discussion, because the Raiders scan I’ve been using has some color balancing issues (litemkr said a number of scenes were green shifted), leading to many shots having a magenta shift, caused by a slight over correction. I was thinking of putting the regrade on hold until we can figure out what the color balance should be (litemkr is looking for a 16mm reference print for projection). However, this scan is looking pretty sweet, and the print looks to be in excellent condition…😃

The first pic from the temple looks good, but its a bit off color wise in the second and third frames (not surprising since he said it wasn’t corrected and a lot depends on the settings for the capture), but seems in good shape. Certainly better than most prints I have seen.

I’d definitely like to know a lot more. What is the origin of this print? Is it from the original run? Is the entire print scanned and in what format/quality? It would be great to replace the damaged second reel and missing bits from our scan.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1076432
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

DrDre said:

Dek Rollins said:

TServo2049 said:

To be fair, the color seen here does not necessarily reflect the scan raw, it uses an LUT based on litemakr’s input on how the color should look going off of projecting his unfaded(?) Super 8(?) print.

Perhaps litemakr can weigh in?

The print is an unfaded 35mm LPP. I’m not sure where Super 8 came up. But yeah, you are correct in that litemakr adjusted the raw scan’s color to approximate the projected print, as he said that in the original post.

The print is an unfaded LPP, but the scan has to be corrected to match the print. Litmakr used his Super8 print to correct the scan, but it appears a slight color imbalance remains.

The main color problem with the scan was a slight green tint on some reels. I may have slightly over compensated in some places. At any rate, the goal was to get to the right look, not necessarily a perfectly balanced picture. That said, when I (hopefully) work on version 2.0, I will keep that in mind. I know there is room for improvement. I’m hoping to get a good 16mm print for reference as well at some point.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1051519
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

I suppose the 2008 HDTV master with the CGI cliff scene, contains the remnants of what was supposed to have been the Special Edition.

Can you elaborate about the submarine scene please? What would it have entailed?

I don’t have any details, I remember reading it somewhere but it was speculation. Seems like it would be a good scene to be finished with CG. The CG cliff scene makes sense as a remnant. And probably the re-comped matte paintings, snake reflections, etc. I always wondered if they finished other shots (like the ark opening effects) but just never released them due to perceived hostility towards special editions. This was after the admittedly stupid changes to E.T. (guns to walkie talkies). After the Raiders special edition was announced, the South Park episode Free Hat came out, which I think probably persuaded Spielberg not to go through with it.

Of course the irony to this is that every shot in the blu-ray is changed and the sound is remixed.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1050121
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

TServo2049 said:

JayArgonaut said:

@Lite: what’s your thoughts, if any, on the ROTLA 1999 LBX THX LD vs the 1992 release?

AFAIK, there was no 1999 THX LD, only VHS. There were supposed to be remastered LD releases with AC-3, but they were canceled. I assume those were supposed to come out concurrent with the VHS remasters, but LDDB does not list them as THX (though old alt.video.laserdisc posts seem to indicate they were going to be THX).

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1047602
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:
That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

Thanks. Curious that a film-maker of Spielberg’s clout was unable to get his work shown in WS on TV for so long whilst Allen succeeded years beforehand. Speaking of the Raiders '84 LD, there appears to have been two US releases, the CLV single disc and the double disc CAV. Would a preservation involve both for historical comparison?

The CAV should have slightly better picture quality, but I doubt there is a need to digitize both.

Post
#1046966
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

JayArgonaut said:

Wazzles said:

JayArgonaut said:

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Only in terms of quality, since the discs could only be used so many times before they were useless.

RCA gave the discs a life expectancy for optimum performance of 500 plays. Most VHS tapes would be in pretty poor shape by that stage. 😄

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threetwelve

alexp120 said:

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

As were 99% of home video releases across all formats during that era. The only films I remember watching at home in widescreen during the 80s were the TV broadcasts of Manhattan (because of Allen’s insistence) and 2001.

Out of curiosity, was Raiders ever shown in 2.35:1 by pay movie channels in the US during the 80s/90s?

Edit: interesting article from 1990 on Spielberg’s fight to get his films shown in their OAR on home video.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1046412
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

Handman said:

RayRogers said:

Of course I don’t own the Indiana Jones movies on DVD anymore. Just the Blu-rays as everyone should.

You’re not a true fan until you own every home video release of Indiana Jones ever put out. That includes CEDs.

That is the one version I never had. It’s the same transfer as the VHS. Did CED have better resolution than VHS? I know they were less than LD, but not sure how they compared to VHS.

Post
#1037740
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

CodySolo said:

So strangely enough, they have also added all the Indy movies to Amazon Prime this week, but unless my eyes are deceiving me, the transfer of Raiders on prime is sourced from the Blu-Ray. So Paramount is being inconsistent on which transfer they license out to which company.

It has been on prime for a while. It’s the blu-ray transfer.

Post
#1036853
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

Wazzles said:

litemakr said:

Wazzles said:

litemakr said:

Wazzles said:

No, fewer digital changes than the blu-ray. You are probably thinking of the HD version of the Lowry DVD master, which had a CG re-do of the car going off the cliff. The wowow is a newer 4K remaster done for the 2011 30th anniversary and has much more accurate color than the blu-ray.

I thought it had some recomped elements and also erased the guiding rod for the boulder?

Yes, it has the same digital tweaks as the DVD but not the additional ones added to the blu-ray or the CGI shot from the HD Lowry version.

I thought the Blu Ray was closer to the theatrical. What was changed?

The entire film has a “modernized” orange/teal color scheme inconsistently applied, it is brightened to the point that shots are overexposed, the sound is remixed, it has heavy DNR and there are additional digital tweaks. The blu-ray is the least faithful of all official releases.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1036719
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

Wazzles said:

litemakr said:

Wazzles said:

No, fewer digital changes than the blu-ray. You are probably thinking of the HD version of the Lowry DVD master, which had a CG re-do of the car going off the cliff. The wowow is a newer 4K remaster done for the 2011 30th anniversary and has much more accurate color than the blu-ray.

I thought it had some recomped elements and also erased the guiding rod for the boulder?

Yes, it has the same digital tweaks as the DVD but not the additional ones added to the blu-ray or the CGI shot from the HD Lowry version.

Post
#1036698
Topic
RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0
Time

JayArgonaut said:

@litemakr: over the years, which release(s) have been your preferred viewing?

I’ve owned and watched all of them. I probably watched the laserdisc and DVD the most and the blu-ray the least. The DVD has the best exposure of any release (nothing is blown out). I prefer the look of the 35mm transfer overall and plan to create a version 2.0, hopefully this year. I think the wowow is the best official transfer even though it has some problems. If you reduce brightness and saturation a bit, it looks really good. I’m curious to see how Dr. Dre’s project to match the wowow to the 35mm turns out, that may be the best overall option in the future.

This post has been edited.

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