jimbotron235 said:
That’s wonderful news. I’d like nothing more than my edit to be obsoleted.I have a feeling the audio tracks might still be handy to have
Indeed! Thanks again
Reminder for anyone who wants a copy, please send me a PM request directly. Thanks
Since I still get asked about this after nearly 10 years, I thought I should mention the theatrical cut has officially gotten a 4K restoration that will premiere at the Academy Museum in May.
A long time coming.
That’s wonderful news. I’d like nothing more than my edit to be obsoleted.
How does this edit compare to TM2YC’s Amadeus edit? He published it in 2017 and gave the following reasons for making it back then:
[jimbotron235’s] version seems to have frames and partial shots missing, at least one entire shot missing (which might, or might not be on purpose), one shot missing (on purpose because it says in the cutlist) and replaces whole shots when only parts needed replacing. Also some of the shot overlays are noticeable to me and the Orion logo at the start is a later one (but only nerds like me would spot that difference 😄 ). It’s very small stuff to be sure.
So because it’s not that time consuming to do, I decided to make my own “frame accurate” version. I also wanted to include the commentary track (in an edited form).
That comment from 2017 relates to what was in V2. V3 is closer to being frame accurate and uses a different Orion logo, hopefully more accurate. I’ve not seen this other cut, so I’m not sure what other differences there are. But if his version is frame accurate, then the major difference will be in a single shot that was truncated in the director’s cut which I chose to keep rather than swapping in the DVD shot, the first shot of the Salieri/Constanza scene. Other than that, the differences add up since for whatever reason the director’s cut lops single frames off the start and end of shots all throughout the movie, so a 1:1 sync to the original theatrical cut is a bit of a nightmare.
Unless he’s added it since, the other main difference is that my version includes laserdisc audio options in addition to the DVD 5.1 mix.
If you are interested in this edit, please send me a PM directly. I don’t always check this thread, but I do check my PMs regularly.
It looks like he took down his site and most of his videos. I’ve been trying to find the complete version of Sins of the Father to make an edit splicing in Blu-ray footage. Thankfully for season 4 onward, CBS included HD deleted scenes.
Please send me PM directly.
Ahem.
Yeah, that’s a good point. Maybe could have two different versions for whichever folks prefer. Either no picture loss for the problem shots w/ black bars on the sides or the presentation I had outlined.
The only reason I remember the issue being present at the theater was because I remember thinking there was something wrong with the projector, haha.
This is even MORE obvious in 4K. There are some scenes where you have consecutive shots with the same characters but radically different geometry. The first and second shots with Riker is a strong example. The fact this happens throughout the film and isn’t just the result of a bad day of filming is even more confusing.
When I was working on the latest version of Amadeus theatrical cut, I noticed the original Blu-ray resolution was 1920x794, an unusual aspect ratio of 2.42:1, and then I noticed that everything looked squished. Not squished as badly as this, but enough to look off. I stretched it to 1920x804, a more standard 2.39:1. It makes a huge difference. Thankfully no cropping needed.
Thank goodness I wasn’t going crazy. I’ve noticed this ever since DVD. I saw this theatrically, but don’t remember that, but I sure remember it on every video release since. This is the first time I’ve seen anyone else mention it.
Stretching the video vertically and then cropping it introduces the issue of chopping off the top of people’s heads. IMO that cure is worse than the disease. If I had to choose between stretching vertically and cropping OR squeezing the video horizontally and having black bars on the sides, I’d choose the latter.
Please send me PM directly.
Bump
Many have found the way, some have not…
AdmiralWasabi10191 said:
This forum doesn’t have a search function when it should. So no, I don’t know which post to go to.
I AM SCARED! SO LOST! HELP ME FIND WHICH ONE IT IS!
No updates, it sounds like.
Thanks for the download link.
I’m slightly confused as to the difference between the included “PCM Laserdisc Audio” track and the separate “JP LD mix” wav.
As stwd4nder2 said, it’s a different track. After I had completed V3 with the US LD mix included, the JP LD was generously sent to me. I synced it up and included it as a separate download.
Please send me PM directly.
I’ve made available, as a separate download, alternate audio tracks for the DVD 5.1 mix, in both AC-3 and FLAC, in case the included AAC track doesn’t work for you. Note these are derived from the original sound mix, and should sound identical, but are now included for maximum compatibility.
I meant, use the AC-3 track from the 1997 DVD release which was the theatrical cut, instead of the 2002 ‘director’s cut’ DVD.
The audio sources used are the 1997 DVD and the 1996 Laserdisc. The director’s cut audio, whether DVD or Blu-ray, is not used in any way.
@jimbotron235:
Why bother transcoding the AC-3 track at all? Keep the AC-3 track untouched and mux it to the final edit of your project.
The fps (frames per second) from the DVD—29.97fps—and the fps from the Blu Ray—23.976fps—are one in the same—both audio tracks will have the same duration.
If you didn’t change the speed of the AC-3 audio when you imported it to Premiere, then by all means, keep the audio you have in Premiere as a guide when you are editing–so long as your final edit is at the fps of 23.976.
When you export the video with that audio, mux the DVD’s AC-3 track to your edit. Compare the speed of both AAC and AC-3 tracks and see for yourself if they are sync’d properly.
It has nothing to do with frame rate. Besides, I de-interlaced and converted the DVD video to 23.976 before building the edit.
The AC3 track (and LD for that matter) can’t be added untouched. The director’s cut video has dozens of shots that are 1-2 frames shorter as compared to the theatrical cut. This results in numerous instances where the video and DVD/LD audio go out of sync. I can fix this here and there by inserting duplicate frames where appropriate but for shots where a judder would be noticeable, I have to trim the audio by the appropriate amount of time, and then export the edited audio track.
“Audio 2: 5.1 AAC (source: 1997 DVD)”
AAC isn’t blu ray compliant. Why not AC3 instead?Is that still a concern? I figured most people play MKV as such.
It would be a concern for those who burn this to disc and want 5.1 surround. You say “most” but there are still those who like to burn movies to disc. I suppose there’s minimal quality loss if you convert the AAC to AC3 640kbps. This can be done with ffmpeg or eac3to I believe.
Edit: Actually, couldn’t you convert the AAC to PCM with zero quality loss? PCM of course being BD compliant.
PCM 5.1 is the opposite problem for me, it’s not MKV compliant, so I avoid it. However what I can do is export the raw tracks as PCM mono and then combine them together in Audacity as FLAC 5.1. You could then convert that to PCM 5.1 on your end.
“Audio 2: 5.1 AAC (source: 1997 DVD)”
AAC isn’t blu ray compliant. Why not AC3 instead?
Is that still a concern? I figured most people play MKV as such.
The Premiere I used only exports 5.1 audio in AAC. To export 5.1 AC3, I would have to take the extra steps of exporting the audio channels into individual PCM tracks, then re-combining them back 5.1 AC3 in Audacity. I didn’t think that was necessary, and didn’t want to re-encode the audio more times than needed. I can make a separate AC3 track if needed, but I consider the Laserdisc stereo the primary sound mix. Listening back and forth, the fidelity of the laserdisc sound is superior.
I’m so glad you uploaded this. I somehow lost my last one and wanted to watch it on Monday. Please send a link.
I’ve taken down V2. V3 is assembled, and I’m reviewing it now. I’ll have it available shortly.
Edit: it’s done. PM me.
35mm scan of the Theatrical Cut in 1080p or 4K would be nice. No need for upscaling.
35mm scan project for both 1080p and 4K would be better than any upscaling effort.
Good. I’d rather a 35mm scan compared to an obsolete upscale.
You posted the same comment (at least) three times now. I get it, you want 35mm. You know what post to go to for that.
By any chance you will be using 35mm scan footage?
No, this is strictly sourcing the Blu-ray and DVD for video. I imagine once the 35mm project is completed, this will be obsoleted, which is fine by me.
Edit 11/30/2022:
Version 3 is coming soon! Changes to include:
Better encode with higher bitrate. V2 has noticeable macroblocking. Likely will not be BD-25 compliant.
Less extreme aspect ratio. The Blu-ray resolution is 1920x794 which is atypically wide 2.42:1. Faces etc. look squished, so this is being slightly stretched to 1920x804 (more typical 2.39:1)
Additional cleanup for DVD shots to better match surrounding footage: dirt/scratch removal, color timing and contrast adjustments
New sound mix to be included: Laserdisc PCM stereo track [PSE96-073] courtesy of stwd4nder2. Dolby Digital 5.1 and isolated score track from V2 to be included as well.
The file is available again (but I’m now working on V3)
The WIP looks great! I can’t wait to see more
“Sorry I’ve been away so long … I won’t let you down again.”
I’m happy to see interest in this project living on. I wasn’t aware the DL links went dead. I’ll fix that…