logo Sign In

jero32

User Group
Members
Join date
8-Jul-2012
Last activity
26-Jan-2016
Posts
287

Post History

Post
#633633
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

msycamore said:

You're welcome guys, and sorry if I ruin some movie magic for some others. So what about the pole for the boulder on the BD? I completely forgot to check that on my viewing, it was reported to be gone on the Imax screenings.

I've got no knowledge about the different scans made in the past, I keep seeing Laser Pacific and Lowry masters often mentioned, but why is it that the wowow (said to be laser pacific) match the Lowry 2003 DVD to 100% in terms of content then?

The other HDTV version (said to be Lowry based) contain the mysterious additional CGI matte shot not seen in the DVD, someone care to explain these matters for me.

To me all three have the same timing, they differ yes, but I wouldn't call them completely different timings. The fact that they all contain these subtle digital tweaks, doesn't that tell us something.

4 options

1.) color timing on dvd/wowow is the original timing, doesn't seem like thats completely true though. When wowow transfer was made, minor tweaks to timing were made.

2.) Dvd was incorrect but used as a source for timing the new transfer anyway. Minor tweaks were made.

3.) A colder bulb was used for the transfer, and they didn't take this into acount

4.) a "creative decision" was made with the dvd that raiders should match the other 2 movies more. This decision was reversed when Spielberg decided he wasn't going to mess with his movies the likes of E.T. anymore.

Post
#633065
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

Image not working, so heres a page with lots of screenshots.

http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/indiana-jones-the-complete-adventures-blu-ray-review/

I think those pictures are also a lot better, as the ones typically used for comparison almost seem like they were cherry picked to show the worst of the worst tint wise. Whilst the whole movie doesn't actually look that tinted when you're looking at it.

Post
#632894
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

Keep in mind I've been trying to say the blu-ray is MORE accurate, not that it's the end all reference of how it would've looked exactly. Again, a digital aproximation.

Another reason I have mentioned in the past. (in the indy bluray thread) Those of us who have been fortunate enough to see a very negative project, will know that certain desert scenes actually have a very very similair orange like cast to the skin tones.

Post
#632882
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

skyjedi2005 said:

 

Celluloid and digital video  color space are totally different things though, so was the BD an attempt with modern digital technology to try and mimic the  original Eastman color release print?

This is what I think. (As I mentioned before)

Digital and photochemical color timing are different beats, so you're almost never gonna get it to match exactly.

Post
#632875
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

Here we go: (PLEASE CONSIDER A MINOR REFERENCE ONLY, QUALITY IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE A 100% RIGHT CONCLUSION.)

http://imgur.com/AFYmF2v

http://imgur.com/yVrRrIr

http://imgur.com/uwaLjmO

http://imgur.com/uqXdb4a

http://imgur.com/4YtiCPY

http://imgur.com/2er2GzL

http://imgur.com/4AGDHQ0

http://imgur.com/fMWqgIC

http://imgur.com/IMdgK6t

http://imgur.com/ivghYoc

http://imgur.com/2ZbIGXf

As you can see the pictures suggest a somewhat warm picture. Due to the quality we can draw no 100% right conclusion. I stil think however that the bluray was meant to mimmick the 35mm with a warmer (as in an 80's) bulb used to project it.

Edit: pictures provided by Harmy, had to check if he was ok with me mentioning that.

Post
#632870
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

That 35mm shot actually is counter evidence to what I said, so kudos for posting it. (sorry but in the other thread there was a lot of "I remember")
I'm stil not entirely convinced though, the scan might have been made with a modern projector bulb, known to be much cooler than older bulbs. (also another reason color timing might differ from showing to showing)

We should really just aquire a 16mm or something and put this to rest.

 

edit: I got sent some of the 35mm photos. Before you mention it, I'm only using these as a light reference. The quality is about that of a potato, but it seems the sunset shot does look more like the wowow version. However theres also some slightly more orange nazi flag in there, so it's hard to tell.

Post
#632854
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

I'm not saying it's a 100% correct. I'm saying that it could've been though.

Found the theatrical trailer, but I'm not sure if its from the blu-ray (seems pretty untouched color wise though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZQW0bUbQMw&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s Heres the sun shot, seems more accurate to the bluray color wise.

Granted its not 100% reliable.

Post
#632846
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

First of all, people don't have great memory when it comes to color. So I'm not accepting any "but I remember it looking like x" as a reference.

Orange flag can be explained as "not perfectly correct". Like I said I think they tried to aproximate the look of the prints, not match it 100% exactly. It can stil be more correct with a slightly orange flag. (how do you know the flag wasn't orange in the original run anyway? And don't tell me it's not the color the flags are in real life, movies rarely ever look exactly like real life color wise.)

I think the sun shot was actually in the 35mm ebay auction. Can someone post those pics for comparison? The ebay auction is down.

 

edit: maybe not "rarely" but slight color changes to movies (e.g. color timing) is what I meant.

Post
#632835
Topic
'Raiders of the Lost Ark' - bluray and colour timing changes (Released)
Time

I'll say it one last time since this is a new thread.

I think the blu-ray was an attempt to digitally aproach the original color timing look. I base this on various trailers, and the photos we saw of the 35mm print in the ebay thread.

I don't think it was perfectly accurate, but considering color timing tends to vary somewhat from print to print I don't think it's a big deal. Anyone touting the dvd as perfectly correct seems to be in denial.

Also if you see it in action on an actual tv moving, it's not nearly as yellow tinted looking as a single screenshot would have you believe.

Post
#627875
Topic
Indy Blu-rays announced
Time

I doubt 1990 prints were very much different. (again this goes back to people memorizing colors) What might have had something to do with it though, is that I think (projectionists please chime in) by the 90s most cinemas had switched to cooler bulbs. So that could explain why everything would've looked a little cooler.

The dvd colors could've been a concious choice, maybe they tried to make it match temple of doom and last crusade more.

Post
#627710
Topic
Indy Blu-rays announced
Time

I stil havent' seen any proof other than your questionable memory, and previous releases. 

The actual original 35mm on the other hand is a thing we actually have pictures of now (yes, they werent professionally scanned, but they look closer to the bluray than the dvds, very unlikely to shift so close to the blu-ray by accident I think)

And again, no the blu-ray isn't without any flaw. I'm merely claiming its MORE accurate.

edit: it appears the ebay auction is down now. Did anyone happen to think to save the pictures for future reference?

Post
#627671
Topic
Indy Blu-rays announced
Time

So despite evidence to the contrary (namely that 35mm print, which is indeed not definite proof) that the blu-ray is at least closer to the theatrical timing than the dvds,. You maintain that your memory (humans have been shown to be very flawed in remembering things like colors) is more accurate than any of the evidence shown in this thread?

Anyway I've said what I think about the blu-ray, and I think if you don't agree with me, I doubt you'll ever agree.

(and no the blu-ray isn't perfectly accurate either, but as I said I'll 'blame' that on digital color timing) 

Post
#627129
Topic
Star Wars 2004 DVD Interactive Menus vs Movie
Time

Most likely the menu got made before the dvd color timing was completely done.

It used to (and sometimes stil does) happen a lot with videogames. They'd have to send out the art for the boxes before the game was completely finished, so they'd use beta pictures. This is how mario 3 ended up with a slightly different map on the box, and "recently" zelda twilight princess had a magic bar on the back, the game has no magic bar.