iamweasel

asterisk8 said:

(Does it take anyone else a long time after clicking "reply with quote" for the page to load? It's seems like it's always been very slow for me. Too slow to wait this time.)

iamweasel, why u trollin. You're at originaltrilogy.com arguing that it isn't worth restoring the OUT at 4K because a) it wouldn't look very good, and b) not enough people would buy it. Them's fightin words, son.

Scanning a 35mm film print for a 4K digital intermediate is not really anything like converting 2D to 3D. You think a film has to be shot in 4K to be 4K, and that also isn't true. Even though 35mm film is just shy of 4K, you have to scan the print at 8K to properly resolve the grain and produce an accurate 4K DI. The OUT would look fantastic given a proper 4K restoration, like the recent Lawrence of Arabia blu-ray. Enough people would buy it to make it worthwhile financially. And they could use some good will points heading into this sequel trilogy gamble.

But seriously, the ESB:R page is nowhere to bring this "not worth it" idea.

 There's no trolling here. Maybe you should read again what I said. Of course it is worth for me, for you and for everyone here to have the OUT in every format we can think of. But it was not worth for George Lucas (and now maybe Disney) to have the OUT released in Blu-ray. And worth here means money, the only thing that they care. They don't have the love and care we have for these movies.

Do you think that they don't know that people that care for the OUT exists? Of course they do! They simply don't think there are enough of us out there to justify releasing the OUT in Blu-rays, 4k or whatever format they come up with.

Hell, if they cared for what we think here, they would not only released the OUT in blu-ray, but at this moment Adywan and his friends would be Disney's employees working on the definitive special edition of the entire Star Wars saga! :) 

Bingowings said:

OUT has never been released on Blu-ray indeed GOUT is just the transfer made for the laser disc set so you could say it's not even been on DVD.

The number of people too young to have paid for the Betamax versions and even the GOUT is rising.

So I think there is more of a market for OUT in HD than any SE or PT set.

That's true, but most people outside of this forum don't know the difference between the special editions released in blu-ray and the OUT, so to them it was the original trilogy that was released in blu-ray. I don't think they will buy the same movie again (even if it's the OUT). And I'm not even saying that it probably won't be the OUT to be released in 4k, since up until now we don't have the OUT in Blu-ray...  It will probably be (unfortunately) the same blue tint special edition we have now...

adywan said:

iamweasel said:

I believe the original movies will never be available in larger formats. If they do, it wouldn't be worth to have them. To have good 4k/3D movies, you have to make the movie in these formats. And the original trilogy wasn't made that way.

 

 The original unaltered trilogy was filmed on 35mm film which means it CAN be be rescanned and released in perfect 4k and even higher.

It's funny that the unaltered versions are the only Star Wars films that can ever be released in true 4k. The special editions and TPM, although these were shot on 35mm film, the effects work was only done @ 2k. TPM only has a digital master which was used for the blu-rays and was digitized at  2k. The other 2 prequels were shot on digital and are stuck at 1080p/2k forever. So much for George pushing technology. He has doomed his "perfect vision" to what will become an obsolete format, while the versions he wanted to bury are the only ones that survive the next generation.

Reading Adywan's information about the 35 mm film which was used in GOUT and reading again what I said, I think I need to rewrite to make it clear what I said.

Of course the original films can be released in 4k or higher resolutions, and that would be done (if they really want to do it) even if the 35 mm film couldn't support a 4k (or higher) resolution with the quality people would expect to find. Money is the word here, and we all know that they will milk that cow (GOUT) as much as they can.

But as I said before, I don't think it would be worth it. Converting a 2D movie to 3D isn't the same as shooting in 3D and we all know by now that they aren't good at enhancing the movies (they only make them worse). Maybe Disney would be able to do a better work than George did (they can't do worse than he did with the special editions), but I doubt that (Ok, if they hire Adywan and his friends I start to believe Disney will do a good work. :) ). And if they decide to release the same Blu-ray we bought in 4K... I don't believe the average consumer will want to buy *AGAIN* the same movies they already bought in VHS, than bought again in DVD, and bought one more time in BD. I know I wouldn't. Even if we believe that everyone in this forum will buy a blue tint special edition classic trilogy in 4 K, I believe they need more consumers to consider another release.   

Ryan McAvoy said:

Markstar said:

Am I the only one who would have been happy with Ady's excellent color correction and fixing the top 10 most obvious errors?

 Yes ;-)

Markstar said:

Adywan is getting outpaced by technology. This thing started with DVD format and by now we have seen the introduction of 720, 1080, 3D and now 4k. Don't get me wrong, I'm still find with a good DVD quality movie on our 46" and will be grateful for whatever Adywan is going to release whenever he sees fit. All I'm saying there is merit in having a schedule that doesn't span a decade.

 As I understand it ESB:R will be 720, but the official ESB isn't really available in any of those larger formats you mention either.

The way I see it, in a hobby project, there are no deadlines and it will be done when Adywan decides it is good enough or he doesn't want improve it anymore. That's the good thing about non comercial projects, they are as good as the author wants  it to be (or have the patience to do). :)

I believe the original movies will never be available in larger formats. If they do, it wouldn't be worth to have them. To have good 4k/3D movies, you have to make the movie in these formats. And the original trilogy wasn't made that way. 

Another option would be that the rebel troops would shoot the AT ST walkers. They are smaller and their armor shouldn't be strong as the AT AT (otherwise the armor would be too heavy for an AT ST to carry).

About the pointless of the ground rebel troops: well, if someone at ground during the battle said: "shoot at the weapons in the walkers!" you could have the ground troops trying to destroy the weapons (they shouldn't be as strong as the armor of the walkers). That would give the troopers something to do during the battle ( you could even having a AT AT weapon being destroyed this way to show that the ground rebels actually did something).

sonofjones said:

Eh, even if he doesn't manage to restore Luke, it's still a one word difference. the entire context of the scene is reverted back to how it was originally (which is the big plus with the dialogue), so even if it's young skywalker instead of luke skywalker it won't be a deal breaker (least not for me)

I feel the same way. I can understand his desire for perfection, but young Skywalker is really fine to me as well.

I sometimes wish ESB:R is finished not because I want to see it (and I do) but because I know that when it happens, Adywan and his friends can finally take a well deserved rest. I'm doing a fan edit too and it is a hell of work to do such thing. I can't wait to see my edit finished, so I kind of understand how tired the people involved in ESB:R should be now...

Lord Haseo said:

Also I see on the Star Wars Revisited page's cover photo on facebook that ESB:R will be released near the end of 2013. I really hope so because my dad is 42 and hasn't seen the OT (I know >_>) and I want him to have the definitive Star Wars experience, but I've been keeping him waiting ever since April when ESB:R was set to release in May and I think he's growing rather impatient.

Tell him you misread it, it was written May 2014. ;) 

The important thing is that it is everything Adywan and his friends want it to be. I don't care when it will be released, perfection takes time, we all know that.

Well, to me it seems that Bobba was chasing Solo and reported to the SD the direction he was going (to which planet he was probably going based on his course). Maybe Vader decided to get there first to set up the trap and said to Bobba to keep chasing Solo (in order to be sure he wouldn't change direction and get lost from the empire). In that scenario, the Empire got there first and Bobba got there in the same time as Solo.

Well, let's not waste time thinking about bringing SW actors to work in a fan edit. They can't do that, even if they wanted.

The best thing you could do is to have someone else to play the character in the movie. I always thought that Obi-Wan and Vader duel in ANH could be highly improved because it isn't hard to find someone to play Vader and Obi-Wan is wearing his hood during the fight (new scenes could even shot obi-wan from behind and /or from angles that you wouldn't see his face). I believe something similar could be achieved with Darth Maul (specially if he is using his hood in the new scenes as well).

One thing I would do is to make Obi-Wan a friend of Quin Gon, not his padawan. Obi-Wan would already be a Jedi in the beginning of A Phantom Menace. I believe that would make it more accurate with the OT.

Wow, I never realized how often Prowse picked on his belt. Things like that only show that I don't know Star Wars well enough as people here. That's great, it reminds me again that the Revisited project is in good hands. Lucas himself couldn't find better people to do a project like this. :)

Matticon said:

Muddy. Did you use an actor the same height as david prowse? Did you do any prep in terms to make him look like he moves and acts the same way?

 

just curious. 

Matt

I hope he has the same accent as Prowse has. Otherwise it would not feel authentic. 

adywan said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

As long as it isn't adding an extra shot of Vader looking down at luke falling and going "Noooooooooooooooo!".

Hmm, now you have given me an idea.........

 

;)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all starwars fans.

I agree with Brash (2).

doubleofive said:

Adywan is not going to reboot the prequels, so this conversation should be moved to the "Script Writing and Re-writing" area, please.

Sorry for the off-topic, the idea of the reboot was really great and I forgot we are supposed to talk about ESB:R only. 

First of all, great clip Ady. I loved the new mattes and everything else. :)

About a reboot of the prequels, it is a huge step. It is not impossible to fans to edit an entire Sci Fi movie (it was done before, with Star Trek), but it would be a hell of work. I'm sure we have enough talented people to do that, but if that reboot is to be done, it should be taken small steps. I would suggest:

1) First write the script and make a novel with it. This forum and other information from books about the history of Star Wars (and of course the OT) should provide enough information for the script.

2) Once there is a book with a history people agree it makes justice to the OT, one can think about an animation or comic book with the history. This step can be skipped if people are really anxious to film.

3) Make the movie.

An important question would be: A single movie or a trilogy? A trilogy would be great, but it would be 3 times harder and we need to be sure to not tell everything, to avoid mistakes (coff, midchlorians, coff). As we all know, some things are best left unspoken. :) I think a single movie would be more doable. Hell, even GL thought he could do only one movie.

I also hope that a reboot of the prequels should only provide as classic characters Anakin, Obi-wan, the Emperor and Yoda (maybe Tarkin and other small characters) but that's it. Remember, the galaxy is big enough to avoid familiar characters to meet acidentaly. :)

Well, here my thoughts. There's a good chance this dream never become real, but it is sure good to talk about it. :)

I never get tired of watching the clip. The Rebel Hoth displays are truly amazing. Can't wait to see this movie. :)

I believe the change in the screen, making it cleaner, is for the best. Man, can't wait to see the final result. Although we can't ask about a release date, can we at least ask what needs yet to be done in order to finish it? :) 

vbangle said:

I like the two rebels that are out in the snow, standing beside the ion cannon when it goes off...they're like "oh sh!t" lol

Yes, the two rebels reacting to the shot was a nice touch. As a matter of fact, everything was great, just the HUD on Vader's chamber needs some fixes, but the rest... OMG. Can't wait to see ESB:R. :)

About the Great Flipper Debate I think of it as something that shows how our process is a lot better than the one GL uses, with his yes men. I know it was painful to some people to debate for so long, but (at least to me) the result was a great improvement in ANH:R. That scene became much better IMHO.

brash_stryker said:

I apologise if I've seemed like I'm "nitpicking". I, along with everyone else here, just want this edit to be the best it can possibly be. There's a tendency with editing to fall in love with changes you've worked hard on even if, stylistically, they might not work. It's very easy to lose sight of goals due to your pride in something and it's only from constructive criticism that things can change for the better in these cases. See: The Great Flipper Debate.

You're right about that. As a game developer and a Fan Editor myself (not editing any movies now, sorry) I always welcome feedback, and I always prefer to hear the ones that suggests improvements or fixes. Sometimes feedback can be hard to accept because we tend to  like what we do (no matter how bad it is).

By experience I know that sometimes only other people can see the flaws in our work. There was one time that people pratically destroyed some graphics I did for a game (just one screen was approved). But through their feedback I could make new graphics that showed to me how bad the first work was.   Thank god their feedback came, otherwise I would have settled for those crappy graphics and would never know how much better it could be.

asterisk8 said:

teharri said:

Everyone needs to stop nit picking. Ady, your work is amazing, I cannot wait for the final product!

Adywan is as close as you can get to a professional while still being a faneditor. I like to think he betters George Lucas in being open to criticism and not just blind praise. Surrounding himself with "yes men" is exactly what made Georgie's prequels so awful (imo).

I agree with asterisk8, Adywan is as skilled as any professional, with the advantage that he really loves Starwars as much as we do. He has good taste and his changes are all for the better, but we must also credit the people here that with their feedback help adywan to make it even better.

In the end, it's up to Adywan to accept or reject any input we give here. That said, for the first time (up until now I enjoyed every modification Adywan did) I must say that I also prefer the hud to be more clear, no text in the left side. I believe less is more in that case. But the outline is a good idea IMHO.

I trust Adywan will see our feedback not as nit picking, but as something that can help him to make his work the best it can be. I know that when he gets tired of working with ESB he will simply finish it (no matter how many changes people are still asking) and we will all enjoy it.