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chyron8472

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23-Aug-2010
Last activity
22-Nov-2017
Posts
1808

Post History

Post
#1134268
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

On these forums: Yes, we should.

In society at large: …We don’t? What does the culture do to shun women for liking Star Wars?

It’s more subtle, systematic, and implicit than that. While there are explicit examples of these deeper norms, it’s more of a pervasive problem that surfaces subtly. It’s hard to notice, but it’s there. Sometimes women aren’t exposed as much to these things. Sometimes it’s a gentle force steering them away. It’s like the norm that blue is for boys and that pink is for girls. There’s no biological reason for that; in fact, there was a time where the opposite was true. It’s just that there are societal norms embedded in culture that we are exposed to since the time we are born. It doesn’t have to be so explicit.

sounds like a conspiracy theory. Nah, I think I will stick with men and women having different brains and different hormones and it sometimes causes them to have different tastes in things.

Do you believe in institutional racism? If you do, it’s an issue with that sort of scale. It only sounds like a conspiracy theory because you haven’t thought about the issue enough and projected the situations other people might live in.

You assume that the female attitude toward “nerdy” entertainment choices are the result of subversive institutional sexism.

I do not believe this to be the case.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134217
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

I think some might say Star Wars is a part of “nerd culture.” Whatever that is. So it may not be because it’s Star Wars, but because sci-fi (sci-fantasy?) is one of those nerdy things. And culture says such things are more for guys.

I have no idea how to fix that. I wish I could. I’m filmly entrenched in it from multiple angles: Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, video games, board games… and the perception is that women are quite the minority of the fanbase for all of those. As well it seems many fans of any one of those don’t really intersect with the others.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134211
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

That’s a serious question. I don’t see why Star Wars, as a franchise, is not friendly to women.

Rey is a woman. And she’s a badass fighter and amazing pilot.

I’m not talking about Star Wars; I’m talking about the culture surrounding it.

Oh. Umm… I don’t know much about that. I visit here. That’s it.

And I can’t talk about my knowledge of Star Wars with my IRL friends because I get labelled a “purist.”

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134208
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

That’s a serious question. I don’t see why Star Wars, as a franchise, is not friendly to women.

Rey is a woman. And she’s a badass fighter and amazing pilot.

Post
#1134205
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

yhwx said:

dahmage said:

dahmage said:

can we get this back to being a politics thread?

This can cover social issues too, and it’s very privileged for you to take the position you are taking now.

sorry warb, but i am stealing your bit

*sigh*

You’re basically saying that this issue doesn’t matter, which, I think, should be pretty offensive towards women.

Nope, i am saying the three of you talking for 5 pages doesn’t matter. you guys aren’t exactly doing anything about the issue.

Discussion is important. It raises awareness about the issue. I am hoping that if I have this argument enough times, hearts and minds will change. If you immerse yourself in and opinion for enough time, you may acknowledge the merit in it.

True.

I’m not convinced that the issues being discussed here today are actually issues, more than they are “I wish more people liked this; or I wish this was not that way.”

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

On these forums: Yes, we should.

In society at large: …We don’t? What does the culture do to shun women for liking Star Wars?

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134187
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134185
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Why the fuck not? What is it about Star Wars that requires it to cater to straight white dudes only? Star Wars is supposed to be a universal story about the human experience.

Does it cater to straight white dudes only? Who says it does? Is it required to? Who says it is? The culture? Which part? Mainstream?

You’re telling me mainstream culture tells us Star Wars is for straight white dudes and nerds only?

Post
#1134175
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

Why does it matter that fewer women like Star Wars?

It doesn’t matter. People like what they like. They don’t what they don’t. It’s not for you to feel oppressed on their behalf when they couldn’t care less about it.

I’m saying it’s not a problem in and of itself but it is emblematic of other problems that exist in our culture

Okay, yes, the culture does play a large part in encouraging people to prefer certain things. I don’t know if it’s a “problem” or not so long as someone can like what they like without being ridiculed. (I’m looking at you, Frink. -.-)

It is not for us to say every demographic should find equal interest in things (including Star Wars). In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134170
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Post
#1134163
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

I knew you were going to bring this up and the fact that you would compare the two is ludicrous. Star Wars is not completely and entirely targeted at children.

My point is, why does it matter?

Post
#1134159
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Post
#1134156
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Post
#1134151
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that. You don’t know why women prefer what they do compared to what men prefer, other than to assume the culture told them to.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134148
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Because of our culture. Our culture says that men should like certain things and that women should like other things. There is a small biological factor, but it’s mostly culture reinforced since the time we are babies.

My 2yo daughter likes pink, and yellow, and a host of girl-centric things that I did not directly tell her to prefer. She is only 2. She was born with certain preferences.

Cultural things can be subtle when you’re already immersed in them. It’s not explicit.

But you’re saying things must be made equal among male and female for the simple reason that they… should. Women like different things than men do sometimes. It doesn’t make it wrong. It doesn’t mean there’s inequality.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134146
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

I view it as a problem, because there’s no reason for it, and I tend to favor more equality in these situations. But this is a concept you seem not to understand.

Your viewing it as a problem does not make it so. But maybe there is a reason for it and you are just not aware.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134140
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Because of our culture. Our culture says that men should like certain things and that women should like other things. There is a small biological factor, but it’s mostly culture reinforced since the time we are babies.

My 2yo daughter likes pink, and yellow, and a host of girl-centric things that I did not directly tell her to prefer. She is only 2. She was born with certain preferences.

I find this argument that children are wrongfully indoctrinated by the culture into liking things they shouldn’t as a rather arrogant presumption.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134137
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

Post
#1134133
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Agreed, and that does not make it a “problem” when fewer women than men are perceived to like Star Wars. It just is. It is not a problem.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134125
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Frink, don’t be an ass.

As soon as Warbler admits he doesn’t know jack shit about women I’ll stop “being an ass.” Saying that no women like Star Wars is disgusting and offensive.

Offensive?

Ignorant, maybe. But offensive?

I’m offended on my wife’s behalf, on my daughters’ behalf, and my dog’s behalf. All other women too, although I’ll admit it’s slightly presumptuous of me to be offended on behalf of all women, or at least all the women who believe they shouldn’t like something based on their gender alone.

Going back to something I’ve said on other topics, it’s not your place or mine to tell women not to be offended by this.

I’ll say it’s not our place to tell women they should be offended. Perhaps women needn’t bother with it at all.

Post
#1134121
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why Star Wars? Why not sci-fi? And who can say if the question is answerable?

Your statement suggests Warbler knows the answer and can reach it if only he stops to consider it.

Post
#1134107
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

The latter.

No offense but do you actually know any women? This is extremely ignorant.

You called me out, and you are 100% right. I am wrong right here. I think I read or interpreted that question wrong. I think it’s bad that this forum does not attract women. There are also deeper societal reasons as to why this is the case.

I am sorry for my accidental ignorance in this situation. People must always acknowledge when they are wrong. Again, sorry.

As I edited in above, the attitudes some display here […] both in off-topic and outside of it, are not exactly welcoming to women.

This was the point I was trying to make.

This may be true, but I don’t think the opinion of women’s breasts being considered private parts is unwelcoming toward women. The whole discussion, maybe, but not that opinion.

This post has been edited.

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