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Warbler

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Join date
7-May-2003
Last activity
22-Nov-2017
Posts
24199

Post History

Post
#1134253
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

On these forums: Yes, we should.

In society at large: …We don’t? What does the culture do to shun women for liking Star Wars?

It’s more subtle, systematic, and implicit than that. While there are explicit examples of these deeper norms, it’s more of a pervasive problem that surfaces subtly. It’s hard to notice, but it’s there. Sometimes women aren’t exposed as much to these things. Sometimes it’s a gentle force steering them away. It’s like the norm that blue is for boys and that pink is for girls. There’s no biological reason for that; in fact, there was a time where the opposite was true. It’s just that there are societal norms embedded in culture that we are exposed to since the time we are born. It doesn’t have to be so explicit.

sounds like a conspiracy theory. Nah, I think I will stick with men and women having different brains and different hormones and it sometimes causes them to have different tastes in things.

Post
#1134252
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

That’s sexist!

Post
#1134250
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Why the fuck not? What is it about Star Wars that requires it to cater to straight white dudes only? Star Wars is supposed to be a universal story about the human experience.

Does it cater to straight white dudes only? Who says it does? Is it required to? Who says it is? The culture? Which part? Mainstream?

You’re telling me mainstream culture tells us Star Wars is for straight white dudes and nerds only?

Didn’t you if any woman enters a movie theater where a Star Wars movie is playing, she must be kicked out? They are also banned from buying the toys and blu-rays and other Star Wars merchandise. They also aren’t allowed on any Star Wars forums.

oh wait, I just remembered none of that is true. I guess women are perfectly free to be Star Wars fans if they want and many of their own free will choose not to.

Post
#1134247
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Like Dom said, there’s no reason it shouldn’t be appealing to women.

Yes there is, its Sci-Fi, its nerdy, that doesn’t appeal to some women.

Post
#1134245
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

But is it a problem if more men than women like Star Wars?

Why should it be?

There’s no reason why Star Wars should appeal more to men than women

You don’t know that.

Star Wars is a universal story about good vs. evil, hope vs. despair, and selflessness vs. selfishness.

Honestly tell me why should Star Wars appeal to men more than women?

You boil the story down to that to suit your argument, but there’s more to the films than just that.

Yes but that’s what they’re about. There’s nothing inherent about “Star Wars” that should be more suited to a man than a woman. The films aren’t about the male experience specifically, nor should they be. They should be for everyone.

You might say, well the OT only has Leia and then only a couple very minor female roles. To which I say yes, that is definitely a problem with the OT.

It is not the job of Star Wars to cater to all.

Why the fuck not? What is it about Star Wars that requires it to cater to straight white dudes only? Star Wars is supposed to be a universal story about the human experience.

Anyone of any race or gender is free to be a Star Wars fan. If they don’t like it, they are free not to. I say let Star Wars be what it is and let it entertain whomever it entertains. It if just happens that more people of one gender and one race like it, so be it.

Post
#1134207
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

If I may, since we’re arguing equality, why does the culture tell us men shouldn’t like cartoons originally targeted toward female children?

Oh great. I don’t know why I’m addressing this, but that has nothing to do with equality.

It has to do with people arguing that some people should like certain things, while other people should not like other things because [insert reason].

chyron8472 said:

In my view tolerance and equality are similar beasts, approaching the same argument from opposite angles.

Women apparently should like Star Wars more than they do. And it’s our job (and Star Wars’ job) to tell them they should…why? Just let them like it or not. If they don’t, then they don’t.

We need to create a cultural environment, both explicitly and impicitly, where’s okay for women to like Star Wars.

Who says it is not okay for women to like Star Wars? Of course it okay for women to like Star Wars!

Post
#1134176
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Frink, don’t be an ass.

As soon as Warbler admits he doesn’t know jack shit about women I’ll stop “being an ass.” Saying that no women like Star Wars is disgusting and offensive.

I didn’t say no women like Star Wars. I merely think that more men like it than women.

You said it several times until the post where I said you should have originally said it the way you just said it now.

I did? Well, I never meant that there are no female Star Wars fans.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

The latter.

That “problem” goes beyond the scope of just this forum. It not going to change anytime soon. Men and women just like to watch different kinds of movies/tv shows.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

Regardless, I apologize for flying off the handle. I guess you must have just worded multiple posts poorly.

JEDIT: Quotes are in wrong order but too much work to fix.

yes you’re right. I poorly worded those posts.

Post
#1134139
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

The latter is another one that you’re not quite as right as you think you are on. Rabid football fans are split almost evenly between men and women these days.

go to any NFL stadium on game day, count the number of men vs. the number of women. See which is higher.

Post
#1134135
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Frink, don’t be an ass.

As soon as Warbler admits he doesn’t know jack shit about women I’ll stop “being an ass.” Saying that no women like Star Wars is disgusting and offensive.

I didn’t say no women like Star Wars. I merely think that more men like it than women.

You said it several times until the post where I said you should have originally said it the way you just said it now.

I did? Well, I never meant that there are no female Star Wars fans.

Post
#1134131
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

You should have said that from the beginning.

Regardless, you might ask yourself why.

Why are there more female fans of Sex in the City than there are male fans? Why were there more male fans of American football than there are female fans? Men and women sometimes have different tastes.

Post
#1134126
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Frink, don’t be an ass.

As soon as Warbler admits he doesn’t know jack shit about women I’ll stop “being an ass.” Saying that no women like Star Wars is disgusting and offensive.

I didn’t say no women like Star Wars. I merely think that more men like it than women.

Post
#1134115
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

Citing equality doesn’t really fit, because they are not equal. Saying a woman should be paid as much as a man because a woman’s ability or intelligence is equal is not the same thing as saying women’s bodies, which are not identical to men’s, should be treated identically. Having a woman cover her breasts does not lower her social standing or make her to be inferior to a man.

Let’s turn the tables. Is the argument that a certain part of a man’s body should be censored because it’s different from that part on a woman a valid argument to you?

I don’t think it is censored because it different. I think there are reasons other than simply it being different as to why it is censored, and those reasons are potentially sound.

Women’s breasts aren’t just different-and-that’s-it. Men have sexual responses to them. Women have clothing that accentuates them. Women and men both treat women’s physical bodies differently than women and men both treat men’s bodies. Women have different attractions to men than men do to women, and so arguing that men’s bodies and women’s bodies should be treated equally (or identically) “because” isn’t reason enough to not treat the differently.

You don’t think women have sexual responses to men’s exposed chests?

are now going to try to tell me that women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests = men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

And now you’re suddenly the expert on women’s sexual response to men’s bodies.

I am not an expert but I will bet my life savings that

women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests ≠ men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

Source? That’s quite the generalization.

I have to have a source for that?

Post
#1134104
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

dahmage said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

I’m not even going to read any farther to see if anyone else responded yet.

What the fuck, man?

what?

The thing you said

find huge place somewhere gather every Star Wars fan in the world there, how much you want to bet that number of men there won’t be greater than the number of women there. Yes, there are female Star Wars fans, but not as many as there are male Star Wars fans.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134086
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

There is a particular male-centered-ness to Warbler’s and chyron’s arguments. Why does the male body have to be the standard that we measure women against?

It’s not unreasonable.

No its ridiculous. I am not using the male body as the standard that we measure women against. There is nothing male-centered about my argument.

You are saying that the female body is different than the male body. You are comparing it to the male body. Your argument is male-centered.

I would also just as easily say the male body is different than the female body. I am not using either as standard. But it is a fact that the two bodies are different.

Post
#1134070
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

I’m not even going to read any farther to see if anyone else responded yet.

What the fuck, man?

what?

Post
#1134065
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

The latter.

That “problem” goes beyond the scope of just this forum. It not going to change anytime soon. Men and women just like to watch different kinds of movies/tv shows.

Post
#1134060
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

With that said, I don’t think women everywhere should suddenly go topless.

sexist! How dare you suggest we should continue this oppression of women!

You’re making absolutely no sense now.

I don’t? But I thought it was sexist and oppressive to make women cover up their breasts?

Post
#1134053
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

Citing equality doesn’t really fit, because they are not equal. Saying a woman should be paid as much as a man because a woman’s ability or intelligence is equal is not the same thing as saying women’s bodies, which are not identical to men’s, should be treated identically. Having a woman cover her breasts does not lower her social standing or make her to be inferior to a man.

Let’s turn the tables. Is the argument that a certain part of a man’s body should be censored because it’s different from that part on a woman a valid argument to you?

I don’t think it is censored because it different. I think there are reasons other than simply it being different as to why it is censored, and those reasons are potentially sound.

Women’s breasts aren’t just different-and-that’s-it. Men have sexual responses to them. Women have clothing that accentuates them. Women and men both treat women’s physical bodies differently than women and men both treat men’s bodies. Women have different attractions to men than men do to women, and so arguing that men’s bodies and women’s bodies should be treated equally (or identically) “because” isn’t reason enough to not treat the differently.

You don’t think women have sexual responses to men’s exposed chests?

are now going to try to tell me that women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests = men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

And now you’re suddenly the expert on women’s sexual response to men’s bodies.

I am not an expert but I will bet my life savings that

women’s sexual responses to men’s exposed chests ≠ men’s sexual responses to women’s exposed chests?

A little bit, but there are different standards of beauty around the world. In other cultures, female breasts aren’t considered nearly as erotic as they are in the Western world. The ideal weight for a man and a woman also changes around the world. It’s not just biology. It’s culture too.

but it is partly biology.

Post
#1134043
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

Frink, you wouldn’t have any issue if your wife or daughter walked around topless?

Nowhere did I say I think women should walk around topless.

You sure seemed to be implying it. Why shouldn’t women walk around topless if men can? You should tell your female family members to do so, you don’t want to oppress them do you?

Holy shit. This is a completely illogical extension of what we’ve all been saying.

How is it a completely illogical extension?

We are simply against the double standard here; nobody here is telling women to strip topless for us.

Then you want women to able to good around topless just as men can, right?

I merely disputed Warb’s assertion that men’s and women’s bodies are treated equally.

They are treated equally, they just have different private parts.

2 = 1

Does this sound equal to you?

*rolls eyes*

Post
#1134026
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

There is a particular male-centered-ness to Warbler’s and chyron’s arguments. Why does the male body have to be the standard that we measure women against?

It’s not unreasonable.

No its ridiculous. I am not using the male body as the standard that we measure women against. There is nothing male-centered about my argument. Many women also agree that the female breasts should be covered.

Post
#1134017
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

You know, I’m starting to think this thread was a better idea than y’all said it was.

Because it somehow helped?

Not that I can see.

It could have helped.

By getting more diverse people to join the forum?

The thread could have diagnosed the problems that are getting more diverse people to not join the forum, and therefore, put the structures in place that would help more of them join the forum.

And as I said, discussions about diversity are useful. It raises awareness about the issue, which is important.

Its a Star Wars forum. Its not going to attract women.

That’s a problem.

Its a problem a that this place is a Star Wars forum or that Star Wars just doesn’t attract women?

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