Star Wars Purist

The music changes to SE: TESB are bad and I don't like the change(s) to the Wampa scene either.  Also, the color timing is HORRIBLE on the 2004 SE for Empire (Vader's lightsaber is PINK in the SE for God's sake ugh).

Also, Vader expresses an effeminate "Oooh" when Luke topples him over during the duel instead of the "Argh".  Instead of "Bring my ship", he now says "Prepare my starship for my arrival".  

Here are the "Han Shot Second"/Dewback level atrocities: 

- No more chimp/Clive Revill Emperor: His performance and the original image was spectacular and had such a mysterious, cryptic impact...Ian McDiarmid gives a very cheesy, uninspired, hackneyed performance in the re-do and, as has been previously mentioned, the revised dialogue Prequalizes affairs and simply doesn't make much sense.

ALSO...(why has this not been mentioned?!?)

Boba Fett's voice is changed to be that of Temuara Morrison's (Jango's).  It's lame and the original voice actor was far FAR superior.  

So, okay, maybe ESB is the lesser of three evils when it comes to the Special Editions, but it's still a travesty.  

Stay with the original. 

:)

I became a purist when my friend got the shiny new silver box DVD version of the Star Wars Trilogy I grew up to love (I grew up on the '95 Faces VHS set mind you) and he told me I had to get it since DVD was so much better and clearer. etc. I got the set for Christmas 2004. The box looked so cool and I thought this was going to be the greatest movie going experience of a lifetime...higher definition Star Wars...movies I hadn't even seen in a few years...on the big screen. I watched the original film...it seemed okay, mostly, at first although I didn't really care for the Mos Eisley scene or when Han killed "that alien". It was weird...because I remembered liking these scenes as a little kid. Huh. I didn't know what to think. Maybe I was just growing up.  Later the next night, I got impatient and wanted to see "The ghost of Luke's father" at the end of Return of the Jedi (because I had forgotten what he liked like)...I watched it...and...

...He wasn't Hayden Christensen. He couldn't have been more than a little kid in 1983. And...and I remembered...the ghost was old, regal, and kindly. Not the star of the as of yet un made 3rd prequel. 

...The music wasn't the same. It wasn't so happy. And...it didn't just end with the core guys all together...it ended with all these planets some prequel stuff. 

I went on the Internet to look this up...I first thought the changes were only to ROTJ. So I avoided the DVD of that. 

Then a year later I read more about all the changes. 

I found my 95 VHS set and watched them and I loved the Mos Eisley seen again and didn't groan because of the horrible CGI Jabba or the cgi jar jar rats or the dewback obscuring the iconic mind trick scene. I forgot how much I loved it. 

And when I was done...

...I saw Sebastian Shaw smiling at me, as it should be. 

I never went back to the SEs...and I NEVER will. 

none said:

Star Wars Purist wrote: She sounds very poorly spoken, childish, non-entertaining, annoying, and unintelligent...all the qualities that the current state of the Star Wars franchise shares...  She's a good match!

That quote was from 2001.  Much has happened since then.

Yeah...

MORE changes

She sounds very poorly spoken, childish, non-entertaining, annoying, and unintelligent...all the qualities of the current state of the Star Wars franchise...  She's a good match! 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Donald Sutherland as Obi-Wan? Sorry, but I just can't see it.

Donald Sutherland as Joruus C'baoth, though ... I can totally see that.

YES!!!

But keep in mind...Joruus was originally supposed to be an evil Obi-Wan clone (Obi-Waan ? lol), so he should be somewhat reminiscent of Obi-Wan in various ways. 

DuracellEnergizer said:

 

Darth Bizarro said:

How does introducing a secondary set of villains prove that they should have been in the movies.  That's like saying that having the Black Sun appear as villains in Shadows of the Empire proves that they should have been in Empire Strikes Back.

Was Black Sun ever established as being a major antagonist in the OT timeline in various interviews, notes, and spinoff material back in the day only to ignored when TESB and ROTJ rolled around? No? Then your comparison fails.

First, the idea of whether the Emperor should or should not have a light-saber is entirely a mater of opinion, not forgone fact (same thing with Yoda BTW).  But even if that weren't up for debate, how exactly is the Emperor going to defend himself against two attackers simultaneously both of whom are wielding double bladed lightsabers with only one lightsaber.  He needs two so he can block two simultaneous attacks.

The guy's got access to telekinetic and electrokinetic abilities. Waving a neon sword around when he can just toss/block/kill a guy with his mind or fry him with bolts of lightning is stupid.

 

Why have the neon sword?  Because it's shiny...and Prequel fans will go for superficiality over substance any day!  

hairy_hen said:

Star Wars Purist said:

If only Lucas could have been Master of his Domain...

I've heard it said that many scenes in the prequels could be completely replaced with footage of him yankin' it in front of a green screen (and yelling 'meesa!' at the end), and the movies wouldn't lose anything essential at all.

In fact, this might actually improve them, because then at least they would be rather repulsively hilarious, as opposed to just plain stupid.

                         ^

  I couldn't agree with this sentiment more...

^

I can just sense Old George adding a masturbation scene to a future Special Edition of one of the Star Wars films.  Oh wait! He did add several such scenes to the OT, and they were all of him doing the deed!  If only Lucas could have been Master of his Domain...

The only "change" I could support would be one that was never done: Removing the Episode Numbers from Empire and Jedi...they remind me of the Prequels.

The films he had the most impact on were the worst, sans the original eponymous classic, which is, IMO, the greatest of the series and perhaps the greatest film of all time...which was George Lucas's complete brainchild in nearly every aspect...I really can't believe he degenerated so much...

I wonder how he would have directed ESB if Kershner had not, or how the plot would have differed without the involvement of Brackett and Kasdan.  I guess we will never know...

walking_carpet said:

Star Wars Purist said:

I just hope they avoid Prequelisms as much as possible.

 i dunno...do you consider "action hero" yoda a Prequelism?  If so, forget it.

"Action-Hero"/CGI Yoda is indeed a Prequelism, and he is not the real Yoda.  Frank Oz's Yoda Puppet is the only true Yoda in my book.  

I just hope they avoid Prequelisms as much as possible. I'm still afraid I'll end up seeing Luke meeting Jar Jar and calling himself a "Padawan"...

Wow! A product JUST called Star Wars.  4 years later will it be re-titled "Episodes 4.5" ?!? 

Anyway, I think the TV show COULD have avoided detracting from the appeal of the films, as long as the writing and acting were of quality.  I see the series as being the Flash Gordon serial George Lucas initially dreamed of. It would focus on Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, C-3PO, and R2-D2, all as the central cast, and with "cameos" or lesser roles for Dodonna, Wedge. etc.  Heck, Vader could have had a side story or maybe even slight encounters with some of the characters (but never Luke, or maybe once or twice briefly, idk).  All in all, it would be a FUN show, like the original Star Trek, with a little bit of camp, but a lot of attention paid to the writing, the actors, and in having entertaining, interesting, fun stories that all fill in the gap between the first two movies (and with continuity between SW and ESB sought after as much as possible).  Pretty much like the Archie Goodwin daily comic strips, except with some more humor.  Wouldn't you just love to see The Return of Ben Kenobi adapted for such a show? Alec Guinness making a feasible full fledged cameo!

Also...if this show HAD occurred, they might have done more with the Prequel Era, and have maybe even effected a superior back-story to the crap they call continuity today.  I can see episodes finding a few other old Jedi who avoided the scourge which Vader inflicted upon the Knights (yet who perish before the show ends, or have given up Knighthood. etc).  Why not have hints to there possibly being a great Jedi Master out there in hiding somewhere...I definitely see the last season pretty much directly leading up to Empire and the film essentially serving as the series finale.  Why not have a brief mini-series in between Empire and Jedi.  That era should be handled a bit more, maturely.  I enjoyed Shadows of the Empire but it didn't work in the context of the story well.  We didn't see LUKE BECOME THE GREAT JEDI KNIGHT THAT HE IS IN THE MOVIE THAT DIRECTLY SUCCEEDS IT.  

I have always thought that the original Star Wars Trilogy storyline, cast of characters, and so on never got enough screen time.  Yes, there are dozens of great Marvel comics and Archie Goodwin daily strips, and even many novels featuring the characters.  However, the comics are...comics, without any audio/music, scant dialogue. etc, and most of the books featuring Luke and Co., tell their story several years after Return of the Jedi.  Thus, most Star Wars books featuring the original characters do not feature the characters as they were in the OT, but rather later when they are much more mature and in many ways "different" people (A wise, nearly all powerful Luke in many books, Leia as a Politician and a Mother, and Han as a father and upstanding citizen who has completely severed his former "chaotic neutral" Smuggler ways).  None of this is wrong, and I love The Thrawn Trilogy, the Hand of Thrawn Duology, The New Rebellion, Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor and so on, but it all feels like...a new series, sequels.  

What I always wanted to see was more screen time of the young Luke, Leia, Han, and the rest.  More films would have probably turned the series into junk (well, it happened anyway), and also would have taken too long (3 years for each) and would have ended up in same forward direction of the novels.  

But then I found TV.  The beauty of a good, quality Television show is that you get to see A LOT of your favorite characters, and more so than in a film series.  The Original Star Trek was on for three years and yet there are about 80, 52-minute episodes to watch the characters, in that "era" of their fictional lives.  As Fry so proudly put it in "When Mars Attacks" in the first (and best, IMO) production season of Futurama, fans of TV shows love how little, if anything, is changed about the characters they love. When you sit down to watch a new episode of your favorite show, chances are that you'll sit down to watch the same characters you love, as you love them.  As for Star Wars, we didn't get much of the young "Big Three" at all, beyond the original film and ESB (and a few novels, which we know of, and which generally keep them separate, Luke and Leia off in Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Han and Chewie off together in the Brian Daley Han Solo Adventures books).  

In conclusion, I have recently been dreaming of "What if..." there had been a live-action Star Wars show.  It could have even been made after Return of the Jedi, and could have gone "back in time" to the era in between Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.  It could have just been a a show lasting a few years, with a lot of attention spent on well-written scripts (perhaps adapted from the daily comics) and could have filled in what is, IMO, the most interesting "gap" in the Star Wars timeline.  Imagine being able to watch Star Wars in all its glory on the big screen, then to spend several days watching the TV series, then watching Empire, and then (if you like it) Jedi, and then reading the "sequel" books!  It would add so much more...

I talk to people who bash me for preferring the OOT and ignoring the Prequels and CGI Clone Wars show from my personal sense of continuity.  Yeah, it's nothing new.  To think that guy actually thinks "Episode IV: A New Hope" added to the crawl helps the movie (when it, in actuality, turns the film from being duly recognized as the original and eponymous film/installment of a huge series it later spawned, for better or for worse, to just the "fourth" one in a film series which only includes one other masterpiece, one very good film, and three pieces of shlock).  The Praxis effect is obnoxious and doesn't fit in with the visuals of the film in the least, and further tinkering with the other films hasn't helped either (which had great brief performances by great actors replaced in cases). Cracked usually has some interesting pop-science/culture. etc humor, and it can lead you to look up stuff and laugh every now and again, but a lot of the time, the writers are barely that well versed in what they're writing and don't dig deep enough.  I wish I could have read the original Cracked Magazine, the supposedly spectacular evil, darker twin of Mad, because I have a feeling the Cracked franchise has degenerated in much the same way as Star Wars has in the past decades...

DuracellEnergizer said:

 

RRS-1980 said:

Oh, and to PT-lovers and "Nobody's forcing you to watch them": but Lucas' merchandising and marketing machine got permanently switched to PT mode. Even OT related products got tainted. I will never get X-Wing or Dark Forces sequel/remake that'd be devoid of PT influences. So my only choice is to skip Star Wars altogether. Sadly, that's what I do.

Reading this, I'm reminded of what part of Star Wars really needs to be rebooted - the EU. Remove the NJO era, Legacy era, and all the PT-styled Jedi and Sith outside of the PT era from canon, replace all writers with a hard-on for the PT with writers who respect and appreciate the old school SW Universe, and everything'll start coming up Milhouse.

 

I'm okay with that.  I'd love a PT Reboot first and foremost.  So much could be done to improve the current state of Star Wars.  I want to feel proud to be a fan again.  

As for the HD/SD issue of the original films, I agree with RRS-1980.  Yes, I would personally LOVE to see Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi released on 1080i/p Blu-Ray completely restored (ala the Blu-Ray Jaws and The Godfather) with tons of features (a multitude of audio mixes. etc) and great cover art which includes the original as released film titles/logos/poster design. etc.  However, if all there is (officially) is the 2006 GOUT, or a fan-edit, or some beaten up VHS, I'd rather watch any of those 3 than see the ruined versions of the films.  You can't be a true fan if you're unwilling to watch something that isn't in HD, even if it's the superior version of the film.  

We should all support a massive restoration (official) of the original theatrical films/audio mixes/titling for the OT on Blu-Ray Disc and future formats, but in the meantime, please don't watch the 2011 GL Blu-Rays just because they're in HD. A 1982 rental VHS of "Star Wars" is more High Definition in overall quality in my book.  

It's a shame about the state of Star Wars in general.  No one is willing to admit (save for some of you guys) the changes in the overall story (for example, everybody I know thinks I'm a huge idiot for "thinking" that Vader wasn't always intended as Luke's father or that The Prequels don't fit into the original idea/backstory of the OT), or much else.  "I appreciate it as a Saga, I'm sorry you only like the old stuff", I hear all the time.  Sorry, but something as banal as Darth Maul (and his multiple resurrections) or films as trite as the Prequels just don't meet my expectations.   

DuracellEnergizer said:

I haven't much interest in seeing the OT rebooted. Most of the flaws are minor, and correcting them wouldn't serve to make a trilogy different enough to really interest me.

And Mark Hamill is not a terrible actor. His performance as the Joker in the DCAU is definitive proof against that claim.

Exactly.  Mark played a very REAL character in the OT.  Modern expectations demand an action hero, an unrealistically "by the book" tragic figure (i.e. Anakin), or something else.  Hamill provided the real McCoy: A slightly geeky teenage farmboy suddenly struck with knowledge of magical powers and a mission to save a Princess and the Galaxy as a whole.  

As for rebooting Star Wars, I simply feel the Prequels should be rebooted and that the OT and its continuity and original theatrical presentations should be restored.  However, if Star Wars was to see a reboot, I would then like to see a remake of the original Star Wars (kind of like an "Ultimate Star Wars") with much grittier realism and which would make much more out of secondary characters (I would have Chewbacca encounter enslaved Wookies aboard the Death Star and attempt to free them from execution, but fail, thus provoking him to persuade Han to join the Battle over the Death Star at the end of the film) and would change things up quite a bit (I would NOT have Vader end up Luke's father, or have Leia be his sister, and might even have Obi-Wan as a clone).  However, this would never be true continuity in my eyes, just an alternate tale, like what they do in the comics.  

DuracellEnergizer said:

 

ToscheStation said:

Baronlando said:

Darth Bizarro said:

Sorry to bump this but I found this article that reminded me of your first post so much I just had to leave this here.

" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html">" target="_blank">http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html"> href="http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html" target="_blank" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html">" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html"" target="_blank">http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html" target="_blank" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html">" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html"" target="_blank">http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html" target="_blank" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html">http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html" target="_blank" title="www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html">http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html />

Seems like a barrel of laffs!

The whole premise of that site is bullshit. 

I stopped reading when the guy drew a connection between the PT and Greek mythology. I'm so sick of hearing that crap. I admit I'm no expert on Greek mythology, but I sure as hell wasn't born yesterday; whatever the Odyssey/Illiad may be, they sure as hell aren't glorified Z-grade schlock like the prequels.

 

Dude, Duracell, I took Latin for 4 years, was in the Junior Classical League/Latin Club/Classical Antiquity Appreciation club in High School for 2 years, and have read The Odyssey, Iliad, Aeneid, Oedipus Rex, Plato's Republic and so many other great reads of classical antiquity in my life and have seen a heap of film adaptations of the Odyssey, Iliad, Jason's Argonauts, and all of that.  Believe me, even some of the worst film/TV hack adaptations of ancient works from thousands of years ago, are superior to the Prequels, and that article is completely missing the point.  Those classical works are ingenious cultural touchstones of inscrutable literary workmanship and cultural value...the Prequels were bombastic failures as films in nearly every regard. No Comparison!  

DuracellEnergizer said:

 

rabscuttle1 said:

Hi, I'm new here myself. Looking for fellow fans of all six films. I have no interest in talking to haters that call themselves fans. I don't care what version it is or who shot first! If it's star wars I'm there. Hope there's at least one other out there that feels the same way.

*sigh* I came to OT.com to get away from fantarded bullshit like this.

 

I had to talk to some guy today who alleged that I had never read/seen anything beyond the OT because I "couldn't possibly not like the Prequels, the Clone Wars show on now, or any of the books" since they're "wayyyy better than the old stuff, which should be remade anyway".  People tell me I "don't understand Star Wars" and can't handle the "expanded, more beautiful story" by not considering the PT part of canon, and state that I MUST accept anything branded by George Lucas as an "irrefutable part of the story" 

...I can't say I'm a fan of Star Wars anymore, because they just don't understand that I don't like what's going on with the series these days, or they don't understand how I could be such a "retro, stubborn conservative" (LOL) fan.  

Duracell, we're a dying breed.  Everyone I come across is calling me a "fake" fan, and a "fool" for not being a mindless slave to Lucas's degradation and whatever he brands as canon.  I'm at a loss here, because when I read the old EU, or watch the original films, I just don't see what people call "Star Wars" today, I see greatness...and Star Wars isn't great today. 

The difficult task is having Prequel Obi-Wan youthful, powerful, and so on, yet still keeping him directly recognizable and wholly related to Sir Alec Guinness's original interpretation.  Anakin really wouldn't be that difficult.  Honestly, in I he simply needs to be a more passionate/spontaneous/energetic Luke, and II a more experienced young Jedi, and in III...well it all falls from there.  I think everyone here feels that having him fall to the Dark Side basically because of a girl was just juvenile as can be! Anakin should have fallen due to the pure seductive hold that the lure of the Dark Side exerts on a susceptible user of The Force, along with his impatience, anger, and desire for Galactic order and security.  

A part of me now believes that there should not have been Prequel films. Perhaps its all due to hindsight; having to see a great franchise and host of characters all get replaced with a worthless new cast of characters and mediocre films, and the complete and utter ruination of what was an incredibly  promising back-story. At any rate, I now think that it would have been best if Lucas had simply not gone in the Prequel direction and had perhaps even kept the Prequel era on a lock-down, leaving it to fans like us to do what we're doing...think of our own immediate back-story.  You could have the Tales of the Jedi and Ancient Sith. etc stories, just not the Prequels.  Wasn't it better with mystery behind Kenobi, Skywalker Sr., and the Fall of the Republic/Rise of the Empire?!? I'd now say so.  

DuracellEnergizer said:

Just don't show any love for the PT, SE, or EU here. If you do ...

Well...you can love the Old EU that's for sure...

zombie84 said:

The Borg were cool, but they were a two-note hit ("you will be assimilated" and "I was once individual and therfore have conflicted feelings about assimilation when you get down to it"). The Ferengi have better long-term personality. But as there has been no movie to feature them, the Borg are still the cooler space-Terminators of the ST multiverse.

Since the new reboot dismisses all previous continuity under the pretense of an "alternate timeline", I feel they should have Ferengi, Borg, or any post-TOS species in the mix.  My only "demand" is that they bring back Klingons to their black turtle-necked, gold-vested, short-haired, smooth-headed, Cold-War allegory-roots! But I have a strong feeling JJ won't quite deliver that kind of "retro" throwback to any Trek sequel he works on...

see you auntie said:

Re: Tom Hardy

This is Tom Hardy. The film is Bronson. It and he is insane.

Of course he is in Inception which is kind of his break out hollywood role. And Nolan loves repeat business with his actors.

Hardy also has a supporting role as the chemist in the Mathew Vaughn directed Daniel Craig starring Layer Cake. Love that movie. And Hardy also played Handsome Bob in the substandard Guy Ritchie movie Rocknrolla. That's everything I've seen him in.

And as for Hathaway she's pretty decent. I'm not a huge fan of hers but I don't dislike her either. A few too many fanboys derided Nolan for casting "ugly" female leads in Holmes and Gyllenhaal, what will they make of Hathaway? He's certainly not unattractive but she does have an odd look with that huge grin in a Julia Roberts clone sort of way.

But I trust Nolan's casting. She's properly the actress out of all the reported women who read for the role, even if I'd prefer to see Eva Green or Gemma Arterton in a catsuit. Although Miss Hathaway in Brokeback Mountain in that one scene was pretty awesome.

Uh...who ever called Katie Holmes "ugly" ?!?...she was quite the "cute/it girl"/sex symbol in the 90s/early 2000s with Dawson's Creek and her topless scene from The Gift gets a huge amount of views and traffic wherever its posted...so yeah...

The Ferengi were the best new species introduced in the post-TOS Trek.  Even better than the Cardassians and The Borg.  Yes.  I said it! (Although they started out as the WORST new species in TNG Season 1 haha).  Honestly, they were almost Gungan bad in the beginning!  If only Jar-Jar and co. could have gotten cooler! haha