Shopping Maul said:
Shopping Maul said:
All this Yoda calling lighting justification talk sounds to me like mental gymnastics 101. Yoda somehow via the force either creating, influencing, directing, etc. the lightning in TLJ just doesn’t sit right with me whatever the reasoning. Pre-ST force ghosts could not affect the physical world. Suddenly in the ST they can directly influence the force back in the real world.
Sorry but I don’t buy it anymore than I bought the ugly Yoda puppet. I also didn’t buy “crazy yoda” as he wasn’t crazy or unhinged in the OT, just a little eccentric and put on a crazy act to either test Luke in TESB or make himself seem harmless while checking out who this stranger was that just crash landed in his backyard.
Yoda was joking around even when he was dying in ROTJ. He always had a jovial side. Something the PT completely got rid of with grumpy frowning Yoda. TLJ Yoda was the same Yoda we see in the OT.
And OT Force ghosts could interact physically with the real world, so why can’t they also use the force? Or is it just because it’s been introduced in the ST that’s the problem?
I don’t recall any physical interaction in the OT (apart from Obi Wan’s ludicrous ‘sitting on log’ scene which doesn’t really count IMO). The issue is the fact that ghost-Obi Wan made it plain he could not assist Luke in fighting Vader. This means either a) force-ghosts can’t interact or b) force-ghosts are jerks.
Maybe, as a Jedi, Ben Kenobi feels it is appropriate to let Luke face his own battles rather than directly interfering. To do so would disrupt Luke’s journey toward becoming a Jedi because it could turn Luke into a noob by relying on Ben to solve Luke’s problems.
That is, Ben could interfere, but chooses not to because it is inappropriate in order for Luke to forge his own path correctly. When Ben says “I can not interfere”, he’s referring to a moral code rather than a physical limitation.
I think there’s a nice simplicity to the idea of force-ghosts as personal guides only. Giving them discretionary physicality muddies the waters somewhat (as evidenced by this thread).
But Ben Kenobi says to Vader “If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.” Pigeonholing him then into someone only capable of talking would, I think, cheapen his potential power as a sentient non-corporeal being of the Force itself. Sure, he doesn’t do more than guide in the OT, but that doesn’t mean he literally can’t. The OT just leaves any further possible force-ghost powers a mystery because neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda use them.
My interpretation (back in the day) of Obi’s line was that he knew he’d be around in ghostly form to guide the new hope (you know who) to victory against the bad guys. I saw it as a subtle thing - the kind of power that would escape the notice of the power-hungry Sith. Kind of a ‘the power of knowledge’ type thing rather than "I’ll be God-like!!"
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. Obviously there is a lot of room for interpretation with these things, but I much prefer a ‘ghosts as guides’ model. There was a beautiful spiritual ambiguity to Force ghosts in the OT (and the Force itself for that matter) that I think has been demystified by subsequent films.